New M-422 is finally here

[Andrew]

Anyone know if goatskin reacts to hwt like HH? Never had a new goat jacket so I have no idea how long it'd take to start looking anything like the last original examples Platons posted (hopefully not 60 years).

Andrew , I have used hwt on on New goat elc G1 and it works a treat...can be done without involving the knits
, not sure of your technique...but I run hot water tap just over a trickle and wet sleeves and whatever other parts I feel need it
, so not enough to wet the lining but it sure brings out the grain and gets some good arm creasing going on
Similar shrinkage to HH I would say.....not as drastic as putting in washing machine

Thanks for that Steve. That's actually exactly the same way i've done my HH. I'll definitely try it if I get one.

After having seen the daylight pics I think i've changed my position on the Mountain Mouton colour. It's a bit vibrant for me (out and about) and I think I'd probably rather it more subtle and a little darker and to age naturally.

 

[Anonymous]

good news guys

Bill Kelso can supply also darker mouton, such as below

Ready to start taking orders for W&G M-422 next week.

 

[johnwayne]

Hey Platon
Gotta add my 2 pennys worth and say how nice that looks - the M442 has always been one of my fav jackets - I've always coveted having a nice original but diifficult to find in larger sizes hence I settled on a '57 Cagleco GI as it still retains many of the M442 characteristic's and which bring me on to the 'fine tuning' you intend - whilst I've pursonally not handled many original M442/a's I do think you pocket flaps ought to be more defined ie sharper/more pointed than the neat rounded style on the pics - it's subtle nuiances like that us VLJ'ers are nerdy about. I also have a an Aero M442a but IMO the collar points are too rounded (+ it's steerhide!) so never gets worn since I've had the Cagleco!!!!
Hopefully a contructive criticism but I'd like to pat you on the back too as it really does look good.

Cheers
Wayne

 

[m444uk]

Errr, who ?

The chap who looks like a cat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Boss

He was one of the numerous manufacturers making the designs of Karl Diebitsch and Walter Heck.

 

[havocpaul]

I agree, Wayne with your comments. Aero's is to me so far off the mark in many ways, this looks good and I just had an email about it in reply to my questions so feel an order maybe not too far off.

 

[Anonymous]

I do think you pocket flaps ought to be more defined ie sharper/more pointed than the neat rounded style on the pics

The pocket flaps are correct. The Willis & Geiger M422 has different pocket flaps compared to those from the other M-422 makers.

Bill Kelso nailed the pocket flaps of the W&G a hundred percent. The pocket flaps were just copied from the original jacket.
Those who are familiar with the W&G design know how the pocket flaps should look like.

 

[bseal]

Will you be offering the M422 in more of dark chocolate goatskin anytime soon?

 

[bazelot]

Haven't read any of the comments, but it is a damn good looking jacket. i am not into repros but I am definitely tempted. I wil read the comments now

 

[bazelot]

moderate fading

That's my carpet . I miss this jacket!!!

 

[B-Man2]

I've watched this "process" on at least three occasions with a great deal of interest but little, if any, understanding of the obsessive /compulsive nature that feeds the drive of many of the members of this forum, in their obsession to obtain what they believe to be the perfect A2, G1 or Irvin jacket.
A forum member devotes the time, effort and money to develop a jacket based on one pattern & contract of several wartime patterns & contracts and submits it to the forum for their general review and as an example of what may be offered for sale.
In most instances the first responses are very favorable however,....... slowly but surely "the process" begins......"Well the pockets are a little big" , "The knits are a little dark", "The color of the goatskin needs to be a different shade of brown", "The sleeves are a little wide", "The mouton is a little light", "The mouton is a little dark", etc.... etc.... etc....until eventually the jacket gets totally picked apart.

C'mon guys, It's a representation of one contract of a wartime jacket. When will some of us learn to accept that there were no perfect jackets, even during wartime by the same manufacturer with the same contract run.

Platon;
This is a great jacket for a wartime repro. You've done a great job. Thank you for your time, efforts, research and financial investment to give us a jacket that is close, if not spot on to a wartime jacket.
Now ......that's my 2 cents worth!!

_________________________________
B-Man2

 

[ButteMT61]

How is constructive criticism bad? Nobody was mean. If you build a reproduction based on historic jackets, you're going to get that. We're also all learning here. Some have made suppositions that are wrong. Some just offered opinion on what they like.
All of that will help BK make a better jacket, and for the price, you want a good product. I'll raise you 2¢ :lol:

 

[B-Man2]

How is constructive criticism bad? Nobody was mean. If you build a reproduction based on historic jackets, you're going to get that. We're also all learning here. Some have made suppositions that are wrong. Some just offered opinion on what they like.
All of that will help BK make a better jacket, and for the price, you want a good product. I'll raise you 2¢

Butte;
A fair response and in the past I have held that same postion. However, over a period of time I've watched some constructive criticism become a little obsessive in some instances and it did nothing to enhance the quality of the product. I'm not just talking about just this jacket but a general observation over a period of time with a few of the jackets produced by the guys on this forum.

 

[ButteMT61]

Fair enough. I'd hope it remains civil and constructive as well.

 

[Anonymous]

Guys, thanks for all the comments and constructive criticism.
Be sure we studied the jacket very thoroughly before reproducing it and copied all the details exactly.

Your contribution is always welcome in case we missed something. In this case we didn't.

To the people asking different color leathers, anything is possible, it's just a question of money, i.e. need to sell few jackets to breakeven first and then can consider to offer more color options. Also we can't go make more colors without knowing how many orders we will get, if any. It's risky. One way to reduce these risks is to raise the jacket price. So will only need very few sales to make up for the losses if any. Also, if the price is high, need very few sales to raise the capital to offer more colors quicker.

Same goes for the knits. Knits are very hard to get. The knit makers normally they ask that we order 10000 pieces to bother with us. Others who take smaller orders, don't do custom colors. So you see...

If you tell me that price is no object, and you can pay Japanese repro maker prices, we 'll make you whatever you want. We'll make you a chameleon jacket that the mouton, leather and knits will change color according to your mood.

But, what we do here, is offering a jacket which is two things. a) A high end repro and b) the best value for money jacket you can find in the marketplace.

I think, nobody can beat this. People who can olnly dream about getting a decent jacket, now have the opportunity to acquire one for reasonable cost, and who cares if the knits are not the exact shade as per original. (Remind you also that originals were all over the place).

For the record, Bill Kelso has 2 color knits for the M422 and preparing a 3rd color in order to give customers range of choice.
And yes, there will be more leather colors, but a little bit later.

 

[Roughwear]

Platon, you have made considered and astute comments in your response. The colour of your goatskin is accurate and I like the lighter mouton, although my original G&F M422A, which I acquired from Tom, is of a darker shade as were most new originals. The workmanship of your naval jacket is top-notch and I'm sure will be excellent value for money. I'm impressed!

 

[m444uk]

deleted

 

[m444uk]

how much man this looks interesting looks like a buzz rickson m442

Buzz who? Who is Buzz Rickson?
I used to have high idea about Buzz Rickson, until I bought one of their jackets. What a disappointment!
I can tell you, seriously, and take full responsibility about what I am going to say, that the current Bill Kelso A-2 jackets are better costructed than Buzz Rickson's. I didn't want to say that before I sold mine on the bay, but now it's sold. The person who bought it is receiving one BK too soon so he will be able to compare and testify.

I don't want to sound arrogant, but the Buzz jacket really turned me off and at the same time made me happy because realized how good the BK jackets are. I think its good news for everybody, as will me abe to get same or better quality than Buzz at a fraction of the price.

Platon, one thing to watch out for, and there is no evidence your jacket does, is the dreaded bat wing syndrome. This is where the bi-swing back balloons out to much even when the wearers arms are down the side. Some repros and originals suffer from this and it looks strange. I'm not sure of the exact cause, but presumably a back panel cut to big or the elastic straps size/tension is not quite right.

The quality of the rayon lining is important too. For years Eastman USN jackets used a thin lining that would ladder even on a blunt finger nail. You see these early jackets all the time on Ebay with shredded linings but otherwise mint. This combined with cuffs made of soft wool that furred up and ballooned out of shape easily and Indian goatskin of variable quality lead to an inferior product that took some time for them to correct.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, no balloons there except those two white balloons in the South.
The lining also will not disappoint you.
The Bill Kelso knits are among the strongest.

We need to get going so offering 10% discount for 'early birds' i.e. for orders received until end of the month.

 

[RCSignals]

Great post! thank you

I've watched this "process" on at least three occasions with a great deal of interest but little, if any, understanding of the obsessive /compulsive nature that feeds the drive of many of the members of this forum, in their obsession to obtain what they believe to be the perfect A2, G1 or Irvin jacket.
A forum member devotes the time, effort and money to develop a jacket based on one pattern & contract of several wartime patterns & contracts and submits it to the forum for their general review and as an example of what may be offered for sale.
In most instances the first responses are very favorable however,....... slowly but surely "the process" begins......"Well the pockets are a little big" , "The knits are a little dark", "The color of the goatskin needs to be a different shade of brown", "The sleeves are a little wide", "The mouton is a little light", "The mouton is a little dark", etc.... etc.... etc....until eventually the jacket gets totally picked apart.

C'mon guys, It's a representation of one contract of a wartime jacket. When will some of us learn to accept that there were no perfect jackets, even during wartime by the same manufacturer with the same contract run.

Platon;
This is a great jacket for a wartime repro. You've done a great job. Thank you for your time, efforts, research and financial investment to give us a jacket that is close, if not spot on to a wartime jacket.
Now ......that's my 2 cents worth!!

_________________________________
B-Man2

 

[m444uk]

I've watched this "process" on at least three occasions with a great deal of interest but little, if any, understanding of the obsessive /compulsive nature that feeds the drive of many of the members of this forum, in their obsession to obtain what they believe to be the perfect A2, G1 or Irvin jacket.
A forum member devotes the time, effort and money to develop a jacket based on one pattern & contract of several wartime patterns & contracts and submits it to the forum for their general review and as an example of what may be offered for sale.
In most instances the first responses are very favorable however,....... slowly but surely "the process" begins......"Well the pockets are a little big" , "The knits are a little dark", "The color of the goatskin needs to be a different shade of brown", "The sleeves are a little wide", "The mouton is a little light", "The mouton is a little dark", etc.... etc.... etc....until eventually the jacket gets totally picked apart.

B-Man2

All collecting is obsessive/compulsive. No one needs more than one leather jacket, but most have several.
The collector of vintage telegraph pole insulators, and yes they do exist, hunts around trying to upgrade the collection for no logical reason other than the thrill of the chase.
If a specialist maker solicits opinion (and sales) on a specialist forum like this, they are clearly interested in what potential customers have to say, regardless of the quality of such feedback.

Platon said "Thanks for the comments, this is the first prototype jacket.There will be some fine tuning and the production jackets will be perfect."
I think that is a somewhat different attitude to a company like Schott. They used to make good leather jackets but have periodically gone through periods producing junk. Slowly feedback gets back to them, they are initially surprised, but up their game, if somewhat reluctantly.