1939 aero 40-3785p

[mulceber]

Ruined a perfectly good jacket.

Hardly. No new stitch holes were added to our knowledge. One could always remove the patches and it would be the same jacket as before.

 

[Spitfireace]

Patches.

 

[Spitfireace]

The ones on there are not the ones from before.

 

[mulceber]

Yes, I know. But if you look at the the link Chandler posted, it's clear the stitch holes are original. So if you remove the patches, you're left with the jacket as it was before, as I said.

 

[Chandler]

I'm not sure I'd even call it messing with the jacket. If you know who the pilot is, and you know what patches would have been there (or at least have a pretty good guess), then it's really just a more proactive form of restoration, imho.

It's interesting that in the auction page I found that the images of (what appears to be) the original pilot wearing the jacket has no patches.

And I have to wonder if there aren't 2 jackets in the pilot's possession -- the second image, which appears later in his service, has no name tag.

Bottom line -- interesting provenance on this piece. But who owned it between that first auction and Vic?

 

[Spitfireace]

Fake provenance

 

[Spitfireace]

you replace the liner etc. the jpatches are new.

 

[mulceber]

It's interesting that in the auction page I found that the images of (what appears to be) the original pilot wearing the jacket has no patches.

And I have to wonder if there aren't 2 jackets in the pilot's possession -- the second image, which appears later in his service, has no name tag.

Bottom line -- interesting provenance on this piece. But who owned it between that first auction and Vic?

I'm not positive, but I don't think those photos of pilots are of the owner. Looks like two different people, and then there's a photo of people not even wearing leather jackets. It looks to me like the auction just had some pictures of people in the CBI theater to add some color.

 

[Spitfireace]

Lol.

 

[Chandler]

I'm not positive, but I don't think those photos of pilots are of the owner. Looks like two different people, and then there's a photo of people not even wearing leather jackets. It looks to me like the auction just had some pictures of people in the CBI theater to add some color.

Yeah, I didn't look at the group pictures, but the 2 solo shots look like the same guy... with a lot of combat experience in between.

Just checked again and will stick with that opinion.

But yeah -- is it the original owner? Gotta wonder. But it's a reputable auction house, right?

 

[mulceber]

Possibly, but given that the older looking one is the one without the name plate, it's definitely not the same jacket, and I'm inclined to think it's not the same person either.

 

[Chandler]

Possibly, but given that the older looking one is the one without the name plate, it's definitely not the same jacket, and I'm inclined to think it's not the same person either.

Agree with it not being the same jacket, but I still think it's the same person based on physical facial details.

 

[Grant]

And that’s why I mostly stick with collecting plain Jane all originals - there are too many forgeries out there. I fear with Masters of the Air coming out, people will be enticed to doctor up more originals passing them off as legit and asking ridiculous prices.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

I'm with Jan on this one, its a resto job. Should have been sold as such but people on this forum would restore a jacket in the same way.

 

[2BM2K]

Yeah, I didn't look at the group pictures, but the 2 solo shots look like the same guy... with a lot of combat experience in between.

Just checked again and will stick with that opinion.

But yeah -- is it the original owner? Gotta wonder. But it's a reputable auction house, right?

The bottom photo is Donold Young , 4th Fighter Group. Nothing to do with the jacket.

media-18835.jpeg | American Air Museum

www.americanairmuseum.com

I doubt that any of the photo's are connected to the jacket.

 

[Chandler]

The bottom photo is Donold Young , 4th Fighter Group. Nothing to do with the jacket.

media-18835.jpeg | American Air Museum

www.americanairmuseum.com

How about the first pic? To my eye it honestly looks like the same man.

But this leads to the question of how reputable these auction houses really are. Why post up pictures that have no connection to the item you're advertising? Pretty questionable.

 

[JonnyCrow]

Ah that IS interesting! So from the looks of it, the patches are high-end copies. But the original jacket had the stitch holes, so whoever restored it was likely trying to restore it to its original condition. They probably researched the pilot, found out what unit he was with, and applied the appropriate patches based on that information.

Sounds like something Mr Craig Cockleib IMA would do

 

[JonnyCrow]

A complete fucking Patsy, I know they do this with high end third reach stuff, notoriously so decorations and Knight cross, niw it's deboloped to this? Pfffft

The bottom photo is Donold Young , 4th Fighter Group. Nothing to do with the jacket.

media-18835.jpeg | American Air Museum

www.americanairmuseum.com

I doubt that any of the photo's are connected to the jacket.

 

[Jorgeenriqueaguilera]

It is normal that auctions houses or websites use generic period pictures just as reference of the item listed. That doesn't mean the item and pictures are historically related unless the seller specifically establish a connection on the description, which is not the case here.

 

[Chandler]

It is normal that auctions houses or websites use generic period pictures just as reference of the item listed. That doesn't mean the item and pictures are historically related unless the seller specifically establish a connection on the description, which is not the case here.

Sounds rather misleading.

I've been following Heritage Auctions and Bonham's and have never seen them use this sort of practice.