Where have all the members gone...?

[warguy]

I know this is going to offend some folks, but the question has been asked so I am going to say it anyway. I dont frequent or at least enjoy this forum as much as I used to simply because so many posts now bash Eastman and their products. I simply have grown weary of discussions going on an on and on about their prices, and in some cases their product. I am an Eastman fan and will remain so, although I recognize that Goodwear products might be a notch above in the opinion of many forum members and i appreciate that. But they too are expensive and you have the downside of the long wait. Point is, I am just so tired of the Eastman bashing, and in some cases the inaccurate information posted on their products to try to make a point. Here is but one example of what I am referring to,… a recent discussion on mouton collars where one frequent poster here made the comment that “none” of Eastmans jackets have mouton collars. Guys and gals, that iis just down right not accurate! So I for one would love to see a stray from all of this rant, and am slowly edging away from this forum because of it. I said my piece, and I know others will have strong opinions about this, but you asked and there it is. Don’t know if there are others that feel the same way, but I suspect at least a few. I know there was an atempt not too long ago to do a thread on bringing Eastman some love. It was meh. It resulted pretty quickly in another thread to bring Goodwear some love. Funny.

 

[MauldinFan]

Sometimes you just have the info and you don't get much from a forum after seeing a lot of the same stuff over and over.
There are forums for my varied interests that I would look at almost hourly for a while but can't recall the last time I'd looked at them.
In many cases, I suspect people get onto this forum to see what's to be learned and once they feel it's repeating, then they seek something newer and "more interesting" elsewhere.
I know I've done exactly that in the past.

 

[B-Man2]

I know this is going to offend some folks, but the question has been asked so I am going to say it anyway. I dont frequent or at least enjoy this forum as much as I used to simply because so many posts now bash Eastman and their products. I simply have grown weary of discussions going on an on and on about their prices, and in some cases their product. I am an Eastman fan and will remain so, although I recognize that Goodwear products might be a notch above in the opinion of many forum members and i appreciate that. But they too are expensive and you have the downside of the long wait. Point is, I am just so tired of the Eastman bashing, and in some cases the inaccurate information posted on their products to try to make a point. Here is but one example of what I am referring to,… a recent discussion on mouton collars where one frequent poster here made the comment that “none” of Eastmans jackets have mouton collars. Guys and gals, that iis just down right not accurate! So I for one would love to see a stray from all of this rant, and am slowly edging away from this forum because of it. I said my piece, and I know others will have strong opinions about this, but you asked and there it is. Don’t know if there are others that feel the same way, but I suspect at least a few. I know there was an atempt not too long ago to do a thread on bringing Eastman some love. It was meh. It resulted pretty quickly in another thread to bring Goodwear some love. Funny.

Read your post and you have some valid opinions. So I hope you won’t be offended if I share a couple of mine with you.
VLJ for the most part has always been an opinion related forum, for example ; who likes Rough Wears as opposed to who likes DuBows , who likes Seal as opposed to Russett, if you extrapolate on that thought it’s who likes A2’s to vs who likes G-1s . Taken to the next level it’s who likes GWs vs who likes ELCs . Point being is that there are always going to be opinions as to who likes what. Simplified it’s who likes vanilla vs who likes chocolate.
You get the idea .. there’s always going to be a difference of opinions here. So why let that turn you off to this forum that has so much more to offer. You have offered so much to this forum in the past, that people who have differing opinions on this subject shouldn’t be something that would cause a person to consider leaving here. Just another opinion that I hope doesn’t offend you .
Consider hanging around and ignoring opinions that you don’t agree with .
Cheers

 

[bseal]

It's usually just the weirdos who stick around after so long. : ) Haha.

If ever there was a motto to put into Latin and affix to our header. . .


Solet iustus discemit turbam qui post tamdiu inhaero.

 

[B-Man2]

If ever there was a motto to put into Latin and affix to our header.


Solet iustus discemit turbam qui post tamdiu inhaero.

Which means??

 

[bseal]

Which means??

View attachment 129655

 

[B-Man2]

….. ok that’s funny !!!

 

[warguy]

B-Man, no offense taken at all, and I really appreciate your thoughts. I certainly have no issue at all with folks offering differing opinions, and I really do think you and I are not far apart in that respect. I find wisdom in many counsellors. My point is simply that the Eastman bashing is just so popular here. Please consider that some on this forum might not be sharing fit pics or new products if it is an Eastman simply for fear that follow up posts will be trashing the shape of the collar or the high price of the item. I think a debate on the merits of most any item is healthy, but I just really think the bias against Eastman products is just too prolific here and might be inhibiting a sharing of information by some members. As far as I am concerned, when I do read the forum, anymore I mainly follow threads about new books or vintage original jackets. I have been following the Masters of the Air thread, but to my chagrin, there we are bashing Eastman again and their yards and yards of shearling on their B-3 collar used in the film. Man, give it a break!

 

[B-Man2]

B-Man, no offense taken at all, and I really appreciate your thoughts. I certainly have no issue at all with folks offering differing opinions, and I really do think you and I are not far apart in that respect. I find wisdom in many counsellors. My point is simply that the Eastman bashing is just so popular here. Please consider that some on this forum might not be sharing fit pics or new products if it is an Eastman simply for fear that follow up posts will be trashing the shape of the collar or the high price of the item. I think a debate on the merits of most any item is healthy, but I just really think the bias against Eastman products is just too prolific here and might be inhibiting a sharing of information by some members. As far as I am concerned, when I do read the forum, anymore I mainly follow threads about new books or vintage original jackets. I have been following the Masters of the Air thread, but to my chagrin, there we are bashing Eastman again and their yards and yards of shearling on their B-3 collar used in the film. Man, give it a break!

Warguy
Again all valid opinions.
And thanks for your response.
As you say we are probably in agreement more often than not .
Cheers

 

[Enigma1938]

Read all of your comments with a great deal of interest . Been around here since 2009 and I’ve seen this forum run in cycles. Everything from scads of members to “ We few band of brothers”. If I had to try and to put some reasoning behind the rise and fall in membership I would attribute it to a couple of things .
1. We are no longer a “Vintage Jacket Forum”
We are essentially a repro jacket forum with an occasional vintage jacket popping up now and then.
2. When I first joined the forum, this was the place to come to for outstanding technical information on military jackets . There history, their makers history, stories about the development of the companies, locations of building, stories about people who worked there, etc. just go back about 7 or 8 years ago and compare the types of posts related to these subjects compared to what’s being posted today. We had comparisons of different contracts with photos to support the comparisons . Unfortunately today it’s mostly looking at recent repro purchases and posting a few oohs and ahhs. Nothing technical or really informative and interesting. I’m as guilty of this as anyone. I used to try to post those types of technical data posts with photos but I’ve gotten lazy. So that’s my opinion and take on the matter.
Sadly those who were really the main stay of the early “Vintage” jacket forum have long since moved on . So now it comes down to how to fix it? Unfortunately… I don’t know the answer. Maybe let’s try going back 7 or 8 years ago and finding some of those old posts and reposting them for the newer guys, so that they can get an idea of just how great this forum once was !!

Good post Burt, you nailed it as usual.
I too have the impression that the "quality" of the Threads and Discussions has decreased.
Sure the majority of the new members here are senseless "Eintagsfliegen" recently. Just think about a serious knowledgeable vintage flight jacket collector comes by here and reads the often boring superficial bla bla here... just think about if that guy starts a thread in which he will show us a rare and perfect preserved original and all responses he gets are like "nice" or "my 5* looks better" or "omg looks like a bums coat hahaha" and other stupidity. I'm sure this guy would leave the forum in a blink of an eyelash.
Yes the Topic was better once and for some reason the big players in our hobby avoid this forum since a while. I dunno if this current state will last forever, i just hope we don't "loosing height" anymore.

 

[Micawber]

People come and go, some stay and make a forum their own and in turn add flavour and personality to a place. As long as online forums don't get too cliquey and therefore narrow in focus - and outlook - they will stay healthy and attract new members, often with their own expertise.
As I stated before, the title Vintage Leather Jackets is misleading. In reality the heritage here means the major focus is American flight gear and, as already been stated, reproductions of same. Some newcomers are referred to TFL as the jacket for which they are seeking information is non military.
Sticking with military flight jackets theme... I will restate my opinion that the rest of the world having its own section titled as 'Foreign Flight Jackets" does not really come across as all that inclusive to some of us in the rest of the world lol! While old timers here have shrugged this off, the title really does need reassessment - as does the main title of the forum itself. Call the place what in reality it is! Principles matter even if in the long run they make 0% difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

[John Lever]

B-Man, no offense taken at all, and I really appreciate your thoughts. I certainly have no issue at all with folks offering differing opinions, and I really do think you and I are not far apart in that respect. I find wisdom in many counsellors. My point is simply that the Eastman bashing is just so popular here. Please consider that some on this forum might not be sharing fit pics or new products if it is an Eastman simply for fear that follow up posts will be trashing the shape of the collar or the high price of the item. I think a debate on the merits of most any item is healthy, but I just really think the bias against Eastman products is just too prolific here and might be inhibiting a sharing of information by some members. As far as I am concerned, when I do read the forum, anymore I mainly follow threads about new books or vintage original jackets. I have been following the Masters of the Air thread, but to my chagrin, there we are bashing Eastman again and their yards and yards of shearling on their B-3 collar used in the film. Man, give it a break!

That is why so many people have gone.

 

[Micawber]

B-Man, no offense taken at all, and I really appreciate your thoughts. I certainly have no issue at all with folks offering differing opinions, and I really do think you and I are not far apart in that respect. I find wisdom in many counsellors. My point is simply that the Eastman bashing is just so popular here. Please consider that some on this forum might not be sharing fit pics or new products if it is an Eastman simply for fear that follow up posts will be trashing the shape of the collar or the high price of the item. I think a debate on the merits of most any item is healthy, but I just really think the bias against Eastman products is just too prolific here and might be inhibiting a sharing of information by some members. As far as I am concerned, when I do read the forum, anymore I mainly follow threads about new books or vintage original jackets. I have been following the Masters of the Air thread, but to my chagrin, there we are bashing Eastman again and their yards and yards of shearling on their B-3 collar used in the film. Man, give it a break!

There is more than a grain of truth in this.

 

[mulceber]

I think nailing down a "cause" is difficult, because a lot of it is speculation, and people who do participate here less often will be likely to assume their reason for coming in less is everyone else's reason. In reality, everyone has their own reason, and the ones canvassed in this thread probably cover the majority of the reasons.

I partly agree with Warguy: I do think the complaining about Eastman's pricing got old fast - Gary's trying to run a business with employees that actually makes jackets in England, so it's not surprising that his prices are high. Even if that weren't the case, this is capitalism and he can charge what he wants.

That said, I DO think it's perfectly fair to point out issues of accuracy. Brands like GW, RMC, Eastman and Buzz Rickson are prized by people in our hobby at least partly because they claim to be extremely accurate to the originals. If you're pointing out issues of accuracy, you're helping other people to make informed decisions in their purchases. If you think Eastman is getting criticized disproportionately, you're welcome to start a thread pointing out issues with GW (if you can find such issues), McCoy, or Buzz.

 

[John Lever]

I have been doing this for over 10 years

 

[Spitfireace]

It's usually just the weirdos who stick around after so long. : ) Haha.

The people with nothing better to do apparently.

 

[Spitfireace]

People come and go, some stay and make a forum their own and in turn add flavour and personality to a place. As long as online forums don't get too cliquey and therefore narrow in focus - and outlook - they will stay healthy and attract new members, often with their own expertise.
As I stated before, the title Vintage Leather Jackets is misleading. In reality the heritage here means the major focus is American flight gear and, as already been stated, reproductions of same. Some newcomers are referred to TFL as the jacket for which they are seeking information is non military.
Sticking with military flight jackets theme... I will restate my opinion that the rest of the world having its own section titled as 'Foreign Flight Jackets" does not really come across as all that inclusive to some of us in the rest of the world lol! While old timers here have shrugged this off, the title really does need reassessment - as does the main title of the forum itself. Call the place what in reality it is! Principles matter even if in the long run they make 0% difference in the grand scheme of things.

It's what you make of it Steve. Look at @mulceber, he took the bull by the horns and look at him now, I'm so proud of our boy.

 

[FlakMagnet]

*pours gasoline*

I think some people tend to get too emotionally charged about their opinions/thoughts about jackets, which is a bit off putting for people who want to get in to the hobby. I understand and appreciate all the details and the historical significance of the jackets (repro or original) that we love to rant and rave about. But at the end of the day, we forget that not very many people outside of this forum cares. No one else gives a rats about number of stitches, the accuracy of pocket placements, how a bloody collar creases, zippers etc etc. on a Buzz Eastman Wear A-600 jacket, except for us, the .000000000000000000000000000000001% of the world's population with this mental illness. I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss accuracies/inaccuracies of certain repros, by all means! But fellas, we just need to chill out if we want more people to take some interest in our hobby.

*lights match*

 

[MauldinFan]

It certainly doesn't help for the overall level of hobby snobbery which you usually find on any hobby forum.
It's inevitable that those proclaiming the more expensive stuff is the only thing worth discussing. I see it often on ALL hobby related forums.
I know a guy who has perhaps one of the most comprehensive collections of WW2 jackets outside of any museum (and only a few friends have a clue about his collection) and I once sent him this link. His response as to why he'd never post here was quite profane. I got the feeling he'd looked at the threads and wanted no part in this.

 

[Spitfireace]

Ya, like jumping on newbies for bringing up the same thing again when it has been discussed multiple times before. That said, we get the newbie coming in to ask what is my mall jacket worth? Then never seen again.