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How good are bill kelso compared to GW Eastman real mccoy
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A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
Guys, I love to discuss these things with you.
Your feedback is very useful. Thank you all for your participation.
We need to find out what the market in general needs and do just that.
I gotta run now, but I will share my thoughts later.
Guys, I love to discuss these things with you.
Your feedback is very useful. Thank you all for your participation.
We need to find out what the market in general needs and do just that.
I gotta run now, but I will share my thoughts later.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
I don't know which jacket you have bought, but none of our previous leathers can compare to the Victory. The distance is just so great.
Perhaps if you see a sample of the Victory hide you will agree that it is worth paying just a couple of hundred more, for a jacket which is 100 times better (no exaggeration) than the one you got.
I don't know which jacket you have bought, but none of our previous leathers can compare to the Victory. The distance is just so great.
Perhaps if you see a sample of the Victory hide you will agree that it is worth paying just a couple of hundred more, for a jacket which is 100 times better (no exaggeration) than the one you got.
zoomer
Well-Known Member
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
The below is my impression of how marketers think today. I'd be interested to learn how it jibes with how they actually do think.
The most difficult segment of any market today is mid-price. It is really a niche. Most people of modest means want low price, period. Most well-to-do people want top-end quality, or at least brand status.
Most of your potential customers are one or the other. Nobody knows what percentage equals "most". It may be unknowable.
There are low-end folks who will splurge, but they're gullible and want flash. It makes sense to offer them your low-end product with gingerbread on it. In our biz, that means antiqued finishes and patches, or the same old design in genuine kangaroo hide.
The market for modest taste and quality at a modest price is basically made up of eccentrics and obsessives. If you're reading this, congrats, you're one of us! But our loyalty comes at a cost. We cost the maker sales every time someone who might have wanted the top-end product makes a compromise.
I'll be candid here and say that BK could move the basic jacket. Whether they really want to is the question. (Notice they're now calling it "budget" instead of basic. What does that say?)
Sometimes it makes sense for everyone to compete for the same market segment. And sometimes they're fooling themselves.
The below is my impression of how marketers think today. I'd be interested to learn how it jibes with how they actually do think.
The most difficult segment of any market today is mid-price. It is really a niche. Most people of modest means want low price, period. Most well-to-do people want top-end quality, or at least brand status.
Most of your potential customers are one or the other. Nobody knows what percentage equals "most". It may be unknowable.
There are low-end folks who will splurge, but they're gullible and want flash. It makes sense to offer them your low-end product with gingerbread on it. In our biz, that means antiqued finishes and patches, or the same old design in genuine kangaroo hide.
The market for modest taste and quality at a modest price is basically made up of eccentrics and obsessives. If you're reading this, congrats, you're one of us! But our loyalty comes at a cost. We cost the maker sales every time someone who might have wanted the top-end product makes a compromise.
I'll be candid here and say that BK could move the basic jacket. Whether they really want to is the question. (Notice they're now calling it "budget" instead of basic. What does that say?)
Sometimes it makes sense for everyone to compete for the same market segment. And sometimes they're fooling themselves.
Nickb123
Well-Known Member
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
From what I've seen, the Victory is no doubt wonderful. I'm positive it is worth every penny and much more. You guys know your stuff. But I would just say to go back to openly giving the customer an unbiased choice (no disclaimer screen promoting the horse, which in turn gives customers an impression that everything else is way below standard). Many of the pre-Victory customers who thought they had an amazing jacket are now doubting the quality of their jackets and feel ripped off. It's a tough situation to be in because hide experimentation is a process companies have to go through. Unfortunately a lot of times it takes sales to keep fueling that fire.
Believe me, you cant expect people to be jumping all over these new jackets, even though you know the quality is there. It will take time, even if time is of essence. Somehow find a way to get the customer base rolling and people will buy the Victory without feeling any kind of pressure-because they love your jackets and know they're dealing with a reputable company.
You can be proud that you're providing excellent jackets to those who don't require the 'best of the best' and also take a lot of pride in your flagship hides at the same time. Who knows, maybe Victory sales will overtake regular HH sales entirely!
The question is-in what ways were your old hides sub-par? If it's just for cosmetic reasons, I'm sure many (including myself) are fine with that. I was happy with mine. If not, don't give up sourcing.
PLATON said:
From what I've seen, the Victory is no doubt wonderful. I'm positive it is worth every penny and much more. You guys know your stuff. But I would just say to go back to openly giving the customer an unbiased choice (no disclaimer screen promoting the horse, which in turn gives customers an impression that everything else is way below standard). Many of the pre-Victory customers who thought they had an amazing jacket are now doubting the quality of their jackets and feel ripped off. It's a tough situation to be in because hide experimentation is a process companies have to go through. Unfortunately a lot of times it takes sales to keep fueling that fire.
Believe me, you cant expect people to be jumping all over these new jackets, even though you know the quality is there. It will take time, even if time is of essence. Somehow find a way to get the customer base rolling and people will buy the Victory without feeling any kind of pressure-because they love your jackets and know they're dealing with a reputable company.
You can be proud that you're providing excellent jackets to those who don't require the 'best of the best' and also take a lot of pride in your flagship hides at the same time. Who knows, maybe Victory sales will overtake regular HH sales entirely!
The question is-in what ways were your old hides sub-par? If it's just for cosmetic reasons, I'm sure many (including myself) are fine with that. I was happy with mine. If not, don't give up sourcing.
zoomer
Well-Known Member
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
My Greek is pretty much limited to January 6, when I say kala christouyenna to the folks at the diner.
Over here, basic usually means just a plain, ordinary product. Budget hints at cuts in quality made for low price.Persimmon said:
My Greek is pretty much limited to January 6, when I say kala christouyenna to the folks at the diner.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
Nice!
My English is much worse than everybody's here I guess and when I said budget I meant no distinction between basic and budget. Budget here means more like "affordable" instead of chopping down quality to make low price.
I thought kala christouyenna was on 25 Dec. Unless the folks are going with the old calendar, the Julian one?
Nice!
My English is much worse than everybody's here I guess and when I said budget I meant no distinction between basic and budget. Budget here means more like "affordable" instead of chopping down quality to make low price.
I thought kala christouyenna was on 25 Dec. Unless the folks are going with the old calendar, the Julian one?
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
One thing I wanted to say is that nobody should feel cheated or betrayed if a maker has moved on an improved his leathers.
Everyone has done it, GW went from cow to horse, then to better horse, ELC from smooth to warhorse, BK went from standard to Victory. The Japanese did it as well. You should see their old catalogs.
It's called progress and we can't stop it. Neither can one delay his purchase indefinitely because next year the maker will have a better leather. Anytime you buy, the next will possibly be better, but price will be higher too.
Glad there is a secondhand market.
One thing I wanted to say is that nobody should feel cheated or betrayed if a maker has moved on an improved his leathers.
Everyone has done it, GW went from cow to horse, then to better horse, ELC from smooth to warhorse, BK went from standard to Victory. The Japanese did it as well. You should see their old catalogs.
It's called progress and we can't stop it. Neither can one delay his purchase indefinitely because next year the maker will have a better leather. Anytime you buy, the next will possibly be better, but price will be higher too.
Glad there is a secondhand market.
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
I took a kind of absence of leave from A2's recently, I'd grown to prefer my B-15 mod, or an L2 if it was warmer. But I've found the last few weeks here ideal A2 weather - I thought I'd take some pics of the old dog before she goes away again, all of a sudden it's way too hot for leather. I suppose the point I wanted to make is, that when I bought this jacket from ELC (a long time ago admittedly) it looked as smooth and polished as a piece of cheap vinyl, the option to buy different grades or finishes simply didn't exist. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but I'm not sure that it's a necessary thing either. Are we really in that much of a hurry these days? Sadly, I suppose we probably are, but the character only emerges with time, and even then it won't be to everybody's taste. Have fun in your A2, wherever it came from. Even if the pocket flaps are wrong.
I took a kind of absence of leave from A2's recently, I'd grown to prefer my B-15 mod, or an L2 if it was warmer. But I've found the last few weeks here ideal A2 weather - I thought I'd take some pics of the old dog before she goes away again, all of a sudden it's way too hot for leather. I suppose the point I wanted to make is, that when I bought this jacket from ELC (a long time ago admittedly) it looked as smooth and polished as a piece of cheap vinyl, the option to buy different grades or finishes simply didn't exist. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but I'm not sure that it's a necessary thing either. Are we really in that much of a hurry these days? Sadly, I suppose we probably are, but the character only emerges with time, and even then it won't be to everybody's taste. Have fun in your A2, wherever it came from. Even if the pocket flaps are wrong.
siddhartha
Administrator
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
Looks great!
Looks great!
John Lever
Moderator
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
What a great looking jacket and good lesson for all of us. Patience.
What a great looking jacket and good lesson for all of us. Patience.
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
Rich, this is one of the nicest aged ELC jackets that I have ever seen. It could easily be mistaken for an original. There is nothing wrong with the pocket flaps on this house jacket and they remind me of those found on Monarchs. The weather will be colder next week so you can get more wear out of this beauty.
Rich, this is one of the nicest aged ELC jackets that I have ever seen. It could easily be mistaken for an original. There is nothing wrong with the pocket flaps on this house jacket and they remind me of those found on Monarchs. The weather will be colder next week so you can get more wear out of this beauty.
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
True....yet to be fair, when ordering a new GW you are informed up front that it will take from 12-15 months for the jacket to be completed.
And.....new GW jackets are going out on a weekly basis, if personal experience and jacket reviews here and TFL are any indication.
From a psychological standpoint...it isn't how long you have to wait, it's how long you end up waiting vs. how long you were told you would have to wait.
People tend to be more upset if told their table will be ready in 15 minutes and it ends up being one hour than if they are told it will take 1 1/2 hours and they are seated on time.
Dr H said:I'm a scientist: I work on a range of timescales :lol: A few weeks?
For somebody who has experienced the fully fledged GW experience a mere blink of an eye
True....yet to be fair, when ordering a new GW you are informed up front that it will take from 12-15 months for the jacket to be completed.
And.....new GW jackets are going out on a weekly basis, if personal experience and jacket reviews here and TFL are any indication.
From a psychological standpoint...it isn't how long you have to wait, it's how long you end up waiting vs. how long you were told you would have to wait.
People tend to be more upset if told their table will be ready in 15 minutes and it ends up being one hour than if they are told it will take 1 1/2 hours and they are seated on time.
