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How good are bill kelso compared to GW Eastman real mccoy
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Anonymous
Guest
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
As briefly as possible, BK is my own concept. It would not have been possible without the assistance of a local (based in Athens) leather jacket maker/shop. I provide the know-how and they make the jackets. I am the 'art director' and consultant so to speak.
I am also the 'designer' in the sense that I am the one who chooses what jackets are going to be released. I am also responsible for the designing (but not making) of the website and for online marketing and promotion. (BK has presence in 4 online forums, I write in 2 and Andy in the other 2). I am responsible for sourcing the original jackets to be copied, as well as all the materials used, leathers, linings, threads, zippers etc (everything except the venthole eyelets). In case BK source some item/material, it has to get my approval before it can be used. I design the woven labels and everything else you see (e.g. the Arthur Rogers jacket, or Claire Chennault's jacket). People from this forum who worked with me know the effort I put and attention in detail. I am responsible for quality assurance and am there to safeguard your interests, in every respect, because by doing so, ensure BK's prosperity, in which I have an interest. I am your man inside BK and my aim is your satisfaction. Anything you want from BK you can talk to me. I will hear all kinds of requests (well only the moral ones). I am there to ensure high standards are kept always. I am responsible for developing wholesales (nothing done yet) and business development. Finally I am the guy who installs the collar hooks on the A-2 jackets. I get a percentage of sales for my contribution.
BK's investment in the Victory horsehides will eventually pay but we're trying to expedite the good results as time is of the essence. We live in difficult times and going through an unprecedented crisis, so extraordinary circumstances demand extraordinary measures. Hence the aggressive marketing (sorry).
Speaking of labels, here's some that will be used in the civvi jackets
As briefly as possible, BK is my own concept. It would not have been possible without the assistance of a local (based in Athens) leather jacket maker/shop. I provide the know-how and they make the jackets. I am the 'art director' and consultant so to speak.
I am also the 'designer' in the sense that I am the one who chooses what jackets are going to be released. I am also responsible for the designing (but not making) of the website and for online marketing and promotion. (BK has presence in 4 online forums, I write in 2 and Andy in the other 2). I am responsible for sourcing the original jackets to be copied, as well as all the materials used, leathers, linings, threads, zippers etc (everything except the venthole eyelets). In case BK source some item/material, it has to get my approval before it can be used. I design the woven labels and everything else you see (e.g. the Arthur Rogers jacket, or Claire Chennault's jacket). People from this forum who worked with me know the effort I put and attention in detail. I am responsible for quality assurance and am there to safeguard your interests, in every respect, because by doing so, ensure BK's prosperity, in which I have an interest. I am your man inside BK and my aim is your satisfaction. Anything you want from BK you can talk to me. I will hear all kinds of requests (well only the moral ones). I am there to ensure high standards are kept always. I am responsible for developing wholesales (nothing done yet) and business development. Finally I am the guy who installs the collar hooks on the A-2 jackets. I get a percentage of sales for my contribution.
BK's investment in the Victory horsehides will eventually pay but we're trying to expedite the good results as time is of the essence. We live in difficult times and going through an unprecedented crisis, so extraordinary circumstances demand extraordinary measures. Hence the aggressive marketing (sorry).
Speaking of labels, here's some that will be used in the civvi jackets
stevetfire
Member
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
Personally Platon I admire your obvious enthusiasm
Personally Platon I admire your obvious enthusiasm
Nickb123
Well-Known Member
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
Platon,
I remember when Bill Kelso was coming onto the map and everyone was thrilled about how good the prices were. I remember a post on the Fedora Lounge talking about how you guys brought something unique to the market: an accurate flight jacket for under $1000.
In my opinion, this was a great spot to be in for your emerging company.
Now with regards to the Victory Horse, the price has jumped considerably. Of course this is not your fault, but this does put some hesitation into buyers.
My two cents: revert back to your old hides and make that the focus once again. Still market the Victory Horse and include it as an option, but I bet people would feel better about this.
I understand that you love your product and only want to put out the best as possible (you should be commended for this), but if there is no major flaw with the old horsehide I wouldn't overlook it!
People will be thrilled with an extremely accurate repro at a good price point. No need to get rid of the Victory Horse...people will purchase it with time once you develop a large customer base. But you guys have a huge opportunity to capture a big slice of the market.
Again, you guys should be very proud of yourselves, as you are making very cool jackets, preserving history, and paying homage to our boys with your business. Best of luck.
Platon,
I remember when Bill Kelso was coming onto the map and everyone was thrilled about how good the prices were. I remember a post on the Fedora Lounge talking about how you guys brought something unique to the market: an accurate flight jacket for under $1000.
In my opinion, this was a great spot to be in for your emerging company.
Now with regards to the Victory Horse, the price has jumped considerably. Of course this is not your fault, but this does put some hesitation into buyers.
My two cents: revert back to your old hides and make that the focus once again. Still market the Victory Horse and include it as an option, but I bet people would feel better about this.
I understand that you love your product and only want to put out the best as possible (you should be commended for this), but if there is no major flaw with the old horsehide I wouldn't overlook it!
People will be thrilled with an extremely accurate repro at a good price point. No need to get rid of the Victory Horse...people will purchase it with time once you develop a large customer base. But you guys have a huge opportunity to capture a big slice of the market.
Again, you guys should be very proud of yourselves, as you are making very cool jackets, preserving history, and paying homage to our boys with your business. Best of luck.
John Lever
Moderator
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
That should not be how it works here.
Vcruiser said:
That should not be how it works here.
CBI
Well-Known Member
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
I have to agree 100% with the post a few people back. Bill Kelso seems to be focused on the Victory Hide (at least from the perspective on this forum) and pricing that now attempts to put it in the same category as GW, ELC, Aero, RM, BR, etc.
There are currently no quality “budget” brands which is what BK was supposed to be in the beginning. I would have kept the focus there and frankly now, you should be able to get these quality Italian tanneries to mill vintage COW hide. Cow was used and perhaps in larger quantities than we thought before so go for it. I would limit the number of contracts you offer, keep it simple and if you can, go back to that $600 range for jacket sales.
Using this forum for its knowledge is great but we already have our jackets and in the past 4 years or so there has been a switch from ELC to Good Wear as the premier maker for realism, we can’t take another switch or addition, its too costly.
I would focus on a more general market BUT you can still be very accurate. Limiting your contracts will limit your supply needs, you can buy larger quantities, get better prices, etc.
If folks here keep asking for contract “X”, just say no and let your value sell the product. We are too picky and not a good gauge of the general market. Many people need a cheap(er) option so focus on COW and make it happen. Offer a dark seal and russet option and then offer the same in Victory, so a total of 4 hides. I guess goat is an additional option and its not a terribly expensive one - so just 5 hides. Just offer 4 contracts and certainly not more than one per original manufacture, its not needed.
Yes, the latest Victory options look great but the market is already set with established companies. If you can swing a quality lower price end, people will bite.
Make a few of these, send them to a few forum members, ask them what FIVE things they would change to improve it, fix if you can, then DONE.
I have to agree 100% with the post a few people back. Bill Kelso seems to be focused on the Victory Hide (at least from the perspective on this forum) and pricing that now attempts to put it in the same category as GW, ELC, Aero, RM, BR, etc.
There are currently no quality “budget” brands which is what BK was supposed to be in the beginning. I would have kept the focus there and frankly now, you should be able to get these quality Italian tanneries to mill vintage COW hide. Cow was used and perhaps in larger quantities than we thought before so go for it. I would limit the number of contracts you offer, keep it simple and if you can, go back to that $600 range for jacket sales.
Using this forum for its knowledge is great but we already have our jackets and in the past 4 years or so there has been a switch from ELC to Good Wear as the premier maker for realism, we can’t take another switch or addition, its too costly.
I would focus on a more general market BUT you can still be very accurate. Limiting your contracts will limit your supply needs, you can buy larger quantities, get better prices, etc.
If folks here keep asking for contract “X”, just say no and let your value sell the product. We are too picky and not a good gauge of the general market. Many people need a cheap(er) option so focus on COW and make it happen. Offer a dark seal and russet option and then offer the same in Victory, so a total of 4 hides. I guess goat is an additional option and its not a terribly expensive one - so just 5 hides. Just offer 4 contracts and certainly not more than one per original manufacture, its not needed.
Yes, the latest Victory options look great but the market is already set with established companies. If you can swing a quality lower price end, people will bite.
Make a few of these, send them to a few forum members, ask them what FIVE things they would change to improve it, fix if you can, then DONE.
johnwayne
Well-Known Member
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
Dear Platon
for my 2p's worth, and I don't have a BK nor have I seen one in the flesh so to speak but I so admire what you have done and continue to do!
The only reason I don't have a BK is because I think I have my full quota of A2's in particular, plus 2 xG1's and others and, my wife will divorce me if I buy yet another leather jacket (now there's a thought!) - seriously however, if and when I do then BK will certainly be in the running - moreso since seeing Ben's (Chamboid) recent aquisition - thats one great looking A2.
Carry on the great work
cheers
Wayne
Dear Platon
for my 2p's worth, and I don't have a BK nor have I seen one in the flesh so to speak but I so admire what you have done and continue to do!
The only reason I don't have a BK is because I think I have my full quota of A2's in particular, plus 2 xG1's and others and, my wife will divorce me if I buy yet another leather jacket (now there's a thought!) - seriously however, if and when I do then BK will certainly be in the running - moreso since seeing Ben's (Chamboid) recent aquisition - thats one great looking A2.
Carry on the great work
cheers
Wayne
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
Hey CBI, thanks for your advice.
We had no other choice than to upgrade because sales of the cheaper alternative were insufficient to support the operations. Everyone was asking for something better, saying "what to do with this useless crap you are selling? don't you see the good quality the others are offering"?
The budget jacket market is 'controlled' by companies like US Wings and others. They have big sales channels and supply the whole USA. We have no access there. We tried, but everybody told us 'sorry, we don't care about accuracy, we want Made in USA'
Ref cow, been in the business since 2009, nobody asked for cow. Too risky to stock cow then.
There's some more things to be said, but I don't want to bore the members. Maybe I will PM you later.
Cheers,
Hey CBI, thanks for your advice.
We had no other choice than to upgrade because sales of the cheaper alternative were insufficient to support the operations. Everyone was asking for something better, saying "what to do with this useless crap you are selling? don't you see the good quality the others are offering"?
The budget jacket market is 'controlled' by companies like US Wings and others. They have big sales channels and supply the whole USA. We have no access there. We tried, but everybody told us 'sorry, we don't care about accuracy, we want Made in USA'
Ref cow, been in the business since 2009, nobody asked for cow. Too risky to stock cow then.
There's some more things to be said, but I don't want to bore the members. Maybe I will PM you later.
Cheers,
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
How 'bout a free jacket then?
How 'bout a free jacket then?
Nickb123
Well-Known Member
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
The budget jacket market is 'controlled' by companies like US Wings and others. They have big sales channels and supply the whole USA. We have no access there. We tried, but everybody told us 'sorry, we don't care about accuracy, we want Made in USA'
$700 for an A-2 is nowhere near U.S. Wings territory. You're the "real deal". Little details like the certificate and the spec tag that come with the jackets, and of course, the accuracy. U.S. wings doesn't come close, and I'm sure that even with your House A-2, no one has thought "cheap" for a second.
What they did see was an amazing repro for a great price.
Now the question is, what was so wrong with the old hides? Yes, people reacted negatively to the goatskin, but I was blown away with my "old" russet Roughwear when I received it. Unless durability is an issue I'm sure a lot of people would agree that the hides were nice.
Please don't see these posts as criticism. I'm an admirer who just threw my two cents in.
The budget jacket market is 'controlled' by companies like US Wings and others. They have big sales channels and supply the whole USA. We have no access there. We tried, but everybody told us 'sorry, we don't care about accuracy, we want Made in USA'
$700 for an A-2 is nowhere near U.S. Wings territory. You're the "real deal". Little details like the certificate and the spec tag that come with the jackets, and of course, the accuracy. U.S. wings doesn't come close, and I'm sure that even with your House A-2, no one has thought "cheap" for a second.
What they did see was an amazing repro for a great price.
Now the question is, what was so wrong with the old hides? Yes, people reacted negatively to the goatskin, but I was blown away with my "old" russet Roughwear when I received it. Unless durability is an issue I'm sure a lot of people would agree that the hides were nice.
Please don't see these posts as criticism. I'm an admirer who just threw my two cents in.
CBI
Well-Known Member
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
I would think that with a little tweaking the "old" hides would be great.
In fact, as a quick trial, take one of the old hides and give it the HWT, stick it in the dryer and then make a jacket out of it. I'll bet it will look fantastic.
Yep, not really buying the US Wings story. You just need to get the word out.
All of these guys who are saying "we want better quality" well, they don't seem to be buying either????????????????
USWings is not in the same league as your cheaper jackets.
I would think that with a little tweaking the "old" hides would be great.
In fact, as a quick trial, take one of the old hides and give it the HWT, stick it in the dryer and then make a jacket out of it. I'll bet it will look fantastic.
Yep, not really buying the US Wings story. You just need to get the word out.
All of these guys who are saying "we want better quality" well, they don't seem to be buying either????????????????
USWings is not in the same league as your cheaper jackets.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco
Nick, we sell the budget jacket at $457 (not $700) and that is comparable to US Wings and other makers, e.g. Cockpit or G&B.
Nothing is wrong with the budget jacket, it is still there. Nobody asks for it.
Nick, we sell the budget jacket at $457 (not $700) and that is comparable to US Wings and other makers, e.g. Cockpit or G&B.
Nothing is wrong with the budget jacket, it is still there. Nobody asks for it.
