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Meet My Little Friend Arlo - Headwind Mfg Co's Aero 18775 Reproduction
- Thread starter Skyhawk
- Start date
Kennyz
Well-Known Member
Looks good Nick, I like the fit
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
Great fit Nick! Looks pretty good. Is that a 44?
Skyhawk
Well-Known Member
Looks fantastic on you Nick! The brick knits put a whole new spin on the look of an A-2. The color combo with the mustard liner is really sharp looking too. For me these jackets provide another completely different look for an A-2. Enjoy the jacket! I think you look great in it.
Gotta love those brick knits
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
So where are these made? Do you make them yourself? I'm just wondering because AVI and 5 Star are made in Pakistan- are these also? You seem to be closing in on a pretty accurate pattern- how do you communicate this with your shop? I sometimes think that if the Pakistan shop were visited by the jacket expert some of the "lost in translation" feeling I get from these jackets would be fixed. Why the $350 price? You could get better zippers and better lining material and really bring the whole thing together IMO. Just curious.
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Skyhawk
Well-Known Member
This is the story. This info is available on the website and on several places in this forum as well. and now into Paul Harvey Mode....
All aspects of the business including materials procurement, jacket design and concepts, Website management, graphic design, Quality Assurance, are all done in Portland OR USA.
The sewing and construction are done in Pakistan using all the materials we send to out to the excellent crew we have there. New jacket designs go through an involved process of Prototype jackets and online meetings to discuss details, errors, etc. This Aero Reproduction involved sending an original to the crew to make the pattern and get the details right. It took a few prototype jackets before it was ready to be released.
The advantage we have at Headwind is our background in original jacket colleting and restoration. Me and my colleagues have restored and analyzed 100's of jackets between us. When something is wrong with a design, it's obvious to the trained eye and can be corrected before it becomes an issue.
Seemingly unimportant details to the average leather maker are all important in making a decent reproduction jacket. A good understanding of vintage construction, and an eye for details, like label fonts, spacing, seam types, knit attachment techniques. There is a wide range of ways to head in the wrong direction. It helps a lot to have a guiding hand to help out and identify issues in real time. That way you don't wind up having silver United Carr snaps on hundreds of jackets when they should have been anodized. Also you would not have pocket snaps on the collars, and would know ahead of time that there were a different type of snaps on the collars of a lot of A-2's.
Details, Details.
Yes we are not perfect either. Mistakes are made. When we find out about them though, they are promptly corrected. Authenticity is paramount in our jackets.
Juanito
Well-Known Member
It is a very good question...
For me, it is like coming full circle to when I first got into this hobby in the early 1980s. On the reproduction side we were stuck with Avirex, Golden Fleece, and a few others that weren't really close. In the late 1980s, Eastman became readily available, Cooper showed a renewed interest, W&G produced some, Lost Worlds was there, so it was a time of discovery and growth--the hunt. You also have to realize how hard it was to get good information at that time.
In any case, we entered the halcyon days of the internet, where it was actually somewhat easy to acquire originals off of eBay, I think the old Yahoo 20th Century group, some military auction sites, and obviously the high end, super accurate producers either upped their game or were established like Good Wear. it seemed that during maybe 2014-2018 there were just more and more of them and they because easy to acquire. So easy that at some point in 2017-18 I ended up with something like $35,000 worth of originals, Good Wear, and other assorted jackets.
Taking a step back, i realized that this was a little crazy and sold virtually of them. The thing that interests me in these jackets is that they are at a price point that is right at what one would buy an Avirex jacket for 35 years ago with nylon taped Scoville zippers and polyester blend knits, making these practically free yet far superior in pattern and materials. You are basically talking something like $125 in 1985 dollars.
Secondarily, and this is not a dig on the high end makers, while your can get a jacket that in construction is nearly indistinguishable from an original (actually it is far better bordering on the boutique side or like and over restored car), they still fall short in one area: emulating true WW2 era leather, something that the components and design can't make up for. Veg tanned, aniline leather just does not compare. It is great that Shinki grains up quickly and they they "wear in" so fast but it isn't really what a WW2 era jacket would do. The realization is that there is no reason to pay four or five times what these low end jackets provide for the marginal difference.
So, this somewhat recent explosion low end jackets led by Fivestar, AVI and the like are an interesting proposition, and really it is the discovery and curiosity of watching and being able to actually feel this competition that we saw in the high end jackets 10 or so years ago. As we all know, a very large part of this hobby and collecting in general is not the item itself, but the hunt.
There will always be those who scoff at these jackets and will fly the Good Wear, Aero, Nor Shor, and so on flag. They are amazing jackets. That said, in many respects these low end jackets are more accurate representations of originals, and as far as utility goes, you are getting it at at 1/3 to 1/5 the cost, although I can't consider a $500 Platon Dubow anything other than a high end jacket.
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ZuZu
Well-Known Member
I don't see why this is an advantage- all the makers have this same experience- Eastman and Good Wear the most maybe.The Greeks and 5 Star also have used originals to make their patterns- it is a talent to see all the little nuances- one which I think Platon has and JC obviously. Hate to be an ass but I really have that talent- just not the skill to translate it into a finished product.
5 Star I see a lot of "lost in translation" and AVI seems more generic but very well designed.
Have you actually taken apart jackets to make the pattern?
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
This is actually not true as far as grain- WW2 jackets were for the most part grainy. It was inherent in the leather. Shinki's a pretty good representation of period leather. Depending on the batch Shinki looks almost exactly like original leather. The Italian horsehide is a bit trickier but it is a customer driven choice for the 2 BIG Makers I believe. And it does look very accurate in the long run when the leather has given up and isn't so stiff. The Pakistani acrylic sprayed chrome stuff looks pretty good now but who knows how long that will last. If it chips and has quick edgewear it's gonna look like a mid 80s Avirex.
The zippers are crap, the lining while it may be cotton looks like a fine burlap- nothing like WW2 stuff. The knits again may be wool but they are loosey goosey. The sewing is not good IMO. So really you're just getting an 2023 Avirex with better leather but pretty much the same crappy components.
This is an absurd statement- epecially IMO in relation to Good Wear, Platon and Kelso and NorShor. These "amazing" jackets follow the "looking good from 20 feet" rule. They may have a relatively good pattern and OK leather but everything else is low quality IMO.
The crummy sewing and mistakes and bad components don't make them "...more accurate representations..." If you want accurate mistakes order a Combat Clone from GW.
Look at the quality- the perfection of pattern and the beautiful grain accurate leather of this jacket. You can bring out the microscope and every detail is going to be correct- it will make you happy. The jackets you are now extolling won't ever do that.
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Skyhawk
Well-Known Member
These line of jackets are not meant to compete with the top tier MFG's. They are meant to be a better, more accurate, economy line of jackets. My other jackets are a different thing, and use the same high quality components as the top tier makers. Talon USA zippers, Japanese repro parts, Bemberg Rayon lining material, etc, etc.
I could make them with top quality parts but that would defeat the purpose and they would cost over $600.
The lining in these jackets is not that burlap type you mentioned, it's actually nice soft cotton. The stitching is very good on these jackets. There was the issue with the inside liner, but that has already been fixed.
Chandler
Well-Known Member
At least he's in the right forum.
Skyhawk
Well-Known Member
Well it's not. I would say you have to have it in hand to make that call. Hard to feel though a photo
Skyhawk
Well-Known Member
No original or reproduction jacket was copied for our Bridge City Rider. It is simply my interpretation of the moto jackets that were put out in the late 40's and 50's. Moto jackets that emulated styles from the WWII A-2"s. Our jacket is different this one in a few major ways. Ours has no collar snaps, and the pattern is completely different. Thiers being more blousy in the torso like an A-2, while ours is very slim fit.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
I may be old and developing long term memory loss …… but even I remember that one !
foster
Well-Known Member
I remember when we used to discuss the details and document what was exact and what was close but no cigar. It was a data driven time on this and other online boards.
Seems like now the focus is on how a purchase makes us feel, and the details don’t matter (in general).
I always liked the nuances of the details. They still matter to me, but I am less likely to check in and comment now, as it seems I am somewhat of a fossilized relic of a different time (one that was not really that long ago).
I’ve resolved to let people be happy with what they buy, and I will endeavor to seek out the jackets that check the boxes on my own personal list of requirements and expectations. My expectations remain high, and I’ve learned to lower them for others. Not just in vintage leather jacket circles, the same rules apply with food and drink, cars, etc. I have friends who will drink cheap liquor and eat junk food, and I just can’t change their minds. Let them be happy with what makes them happy.
As always, your mileage may vary. Miles per gallon efficiency may lose out to smiles per gallon joyrides. The world continues to spin (or maybe that’s just my head trying to take in social media after a hiatus?)
Seems like now the focus is on how a purchase makes us feel, and the details don’t matter (in general).
I always liked the nuances of the details. They still matter to me, but I am less likely to check in and comment now, as it seems I am somewhat of a fossilized relic of a different time (one that was not really that long ago).
I’ve resolved to let people be happy with what they buy, and I will endeavor to seek out the jackets that check the boxes on my own personal list of requirements and expectations. My expectations remain high, and I’ve learned to lower them for others. Not just in vintage leather jacket circles, the same rules apply with food and drink, cars, etc. I have friends who will drink cheap liquor and eat junk food, and I just can’t change their minds. Let them be happy with what makes them happy.
As always, your mileage may vary. Miles per gallon efficiency may lose out to smiles per gallon joyrides. The world continues to spin (or maybe that’s just my head trying to take in social media after a hiatus?)
Nickb123
Well-Known Member
Jay, the lining is thinner in feel than mil-spec lining, and seems to have a slightly less pronounced weave, I do have to say.
All things considered, I’m enjoying mine so far.
ETA: just did a quick check against a GW. The lining on the Headwind is not as taught, perhaps making it feel thinner.
Not complaining for the $350 vs. $800+. Haven’t tried a Platon Dubow yet but IMO the Headwind has the cut dialed in well, while the hardware (as expected) is less fancy.
Knits on the Headwind seem to be robust; and tight.
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