MaydayWei
Well-Known Member
No, you are not a liar.
I simply asked for images.
If you'd kindly take them we could compare the severity of the issue on your eastman to assess if your claim holds merit.
Is that not okay? Seriously.
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FIVE STAR
- Thread starter bellumbill
- Start date
No, you are not a liar.
I simply asked for images.
If you'd kindly take them we could compare the severity of the issue on your eastman to assess if your claim holds merit.
Is that not okay? Seriously.
MaydayWei
Well-Known Member
I'd like to know why my post is "fighting" you. I disagree with you, is that fighting you?
You said "But "patched-together Franken-Collar" = bad quality...? Doesn't have to be so automatically."
I disagree, I said that I disagreed with you and that I believe that a high-quality jacket should not have these issues. What happened to my jacket is a fact and the truth.
Why does this offend you?
You are simply trying to change the topic and to subvert attention from the main topic.
Who cares that JC does that with his jackets?
Who cares if a stitched together collar does not necessarily indicate a bad quality jacket?
It is irrelevant.
The reality is that these things don't happen on a high quality jacket. It sure as hell does not happen on a Goodwear.
Please don't try to change the subject and to divert attention away from the subject of focus; that is, namely, five star jacket's have alarming quality control issues.
While you are trying to subvert the focus of this discussion and undermine my position, I am standing up for myself and my experiences.
If you think I will easily submit, think again.
ties70
Well-Known Member
I tried... I really did. And obviously failed.
Enjoy your life.... Open a good bottle of wine... Maybe listen to Carly Simon... "You're so vain, you probably think my posts are about you..."
Ties
MaydayWei
Well-Known Member
I tried... I really did. And obviously failed.
Enjoy your life.... Open a good bottle of wine... Maybe listen to Carly Simon... "You're so vain, you probably think my posts are about you..."
Ties
How could I be so vain so as to possibly believe, when you quote and directly reply to my posts, that you are talking to me?
mulceber
Moderator
Wei, for your own sake, please take a walk and cool off. Take a break from the situation. From what you said in the above quote, it sounds like you don't think you're being combative, but speaking as an outsider who wishes you the best, your recent posts in this thread have been very combative and angry with pretty much anyone who disagrees with you. I'm not saying this to attack you. I'm saying it because I don't want to see a valued member of the VLJ burn bridges with everyone and rage-quit the board. It's all very well to think that Five Star has quality control issues. How you communicate that is what matters. My advice, unsolicited though it is, would be to get some distance and revisit this conversation in a week or two.
bn1966
Well-Known Member
Wish I could have a drink but I’ve got an early work start in the morning, beer on Friday evening however..won’t be going anywhere near Carly Simon though. Bed for me now….take care Gentlemen enjoy your morning / afternoon / evening whatever time of day or night it is where you are. More jacket fun for me tomorrow, need the temperature to just drop slightly to give an opportunity to start breaking in my new Eastmans G-1.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Wow ! Some thread …. I’ve been reading it pretty intently and while I feel badly that we’ve got some pretty respected friends going at each other ….. I have to say that some of us knew that these conversations would take place one day . I’ll explain as briefly as possible . First off let me offer a disclaimer that what I’m about to say isn’t directed at anyone , isn’t downplaying any ones concerns or issues and certainly isn’t trying to demean or promote one makers jackets over another’s. In my collection I have GWs, ELCs, Aero’s and a 5 Star , and I really like them all.
But here’s the preverbal elephant in the room that no one is discussing . Namely, that we as a group are constantly looking for the best jackets being made, at the cheapest prices available . Now before someone goes off on me, I include myself in this group and this is one of the fun aspects of this hobby, but here’s where this all falls short .Because of the costs of materials , labor , hardware , research and development and a few other factors, the prices of these jackets can only go as low as the total costs of all of the above factors will allow. If a maker tries to lower his productions costs any lower than his costs of materials and labor, he will either have to limit the quality of the materials in the jacket or loose money in the manufacture and the sale of that jacket . This isn’t new or something that we don’t know. For the most part it’s been a sub topic of many threads over the last few years. But now the basic principles of the math in this equation are becoming more evident in practical life . To put it in other terms , a buyer is NEVER EVER going to get a Good Wear , ELC or a top tier jacket with top tier hides, craftsmanship and quality, for
$ 250.00 to $325.00 . It’s just never going to happen . Now , what does happen is that many of us who have figured this out , willingly accept this fact and settle for the best quality jacket that a company like 5 Star can turn out, and are willing to accept that it won’t be perfect, but for the price it’s a great deal and we can live with the parts of the jacket that aren’t perfect . However, the shit always hits the fan when someone goes into this scenario with the idea that he’s going to buy a jacket that has the quality of a Good Wear at the cost point of a 5 Star, and after a few months or a year the buyer realizes that the quality of the jacket he purchased doesn’t meet his expectations. Now…, to be clear … I don’t see this as anyone’s fault … not the jacket maker, because he’s trying to turn out the best jacket he can and still make a living, or the buyer who is trying to get the best jacket for his money .
The problem is one of our perception of what level of quality, is commensurate with the price we are willing to pay it . Once we learn that you can’t buy a Mercedes for the price of a Volkswagen we will probably avoid future confrontations like we are experiencing now. I hope that I have offered some insight and not fanned any flames here .
Cheers to all of you guys .
But here’s the preverbal elephant in the room that no one is discussing . Namely, that we as a group are constantly looking for the best jackets being made, at the cheapest prices available . Now before someone goes off on me, I include myself in this group and this is one of the fun aspects of this hobby, but here’s where this all falls short .Because of the costs of materials , labor , hardware , research and development and a few other factors, the prices of these jackets can only go as low as the total costs of all of the above factors will allow. If a maker tries to lower his productions costs any lower than his costs of materials and labor, he will either have to limit the quality of the materials in the jacket or loose money in the manufacture and the sale of that jacket . This isn’t new or something that we don’t know. For the most part it’s been a sub topic of many threads over the last few years. But now the basic principles of the math in this equation are becoming more evident in practical life . To put it in other terms , a buyer is NEVER EVER going to get a Good Wear , ELC or a top tier jacket with top tier hides, craftsmanship and quality, for
$ 250.00 to $325.00 . It’s just never going to happen . Now , what does happen is that many of us who have figured this out , willingly accept this fact and settle for the best quality jacket that a company like 5 Star can turn out, and are willing to accept that it won’t be perfect, but for the price it’s a great deal and we can live with the parts of the jacket that aren’t perfect . However, the shit always hits the fan when someone goes into this scenario with the idea that he’s going to buy a jacket that has the quality of a Good Wear at the cost point of a 5 Star, and after a few months or a year the buyer realizes that the quality of the jacket he purchased doesn’t meet his expectations. Now…, to be clear … I don’t see this as anyone’s fault … not the jacket maker, because he’s trying to turn out the best jacket he can and still make a living, or the buyer who is trying to get the best jacket for his money .
The problem is one of our perception of what level of quality, is commensurate with the price we are willing to pay it . Once we learn that you can’t buy a Mercedes for the price of a Volkswagen we will probably avoid future confrontations like we are experiencing now. I hope that I have offered some insight and not fanned any flames here .
Cheers to all of you guys .
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Micawber
Well-Known Member
Spot on as usual Burt. I could expand on one or two points but it's late here in the UK and my bed calls. Before I log off I would like to state that I stand by my earlier comments posted some hours ago in this, or an identical thread elsewhere, but would reiterate the need to keep a sense of proportion, perspective, remember the forum is about leather jackets and not contentious and often hotly and intemperately debated subjects such as capital punishment, modern politics or religion!
Above all avoid the temptation to resort to personal asides.
Above all avoid the temptation to resort to personal asides.
MaydayWei
Well-Known Member
Taking Jan's advice, and having had time to reflect, it occurs to me that 5 Star isn’t worth the spat its generated. I value this forum and hate to know I’ve detracted from its original intent, though I find myself often doing so.
In light of that, I offer my apologies and a metaphorical laurel wreath as a virtual token of peace for all those who I have offended, be it deliberately or otherwise.
@ties70, I hold no personal vendetta against you. We disagree irreconcilably on this topic, but I hope that does not mean that we cannot move on from this amicably and respectfully.
That said, I stand by my statements. I have no qualm representing an unpopular opinion. My comments on 5 Star are my personal and unbiased views based on my experiences. Mileage may vary. The pictures speak for themselves. If you wish to order a 5 star, please do; but know that you have been warned.
Rather unimaginatively:
In light of that, I offer my apologies and a metaphorical laurel wreath as a virtual token of peace for all those who I have offended, be it deliberately or otherwise.
@ties70, I hold no personal vendetta against you. We disagree irreconcilably on this topic, but I hope that does not mean that we cannot move on from this amicably and respectfully.
That said, I stand by my statements. I have no qualm representing an unpopular opinion. My comments on 5 Star are my personal and unbiased views based on my experiences. Mileage may vary. The pictures speak for themselves. If you wish to order a 5 star, please do; but know that you have been warned.
Rather unimaginatively:
tda003
Well-Known Member
I don't have a dog in this fight. HOWEVER, I have just been reading the "Need Help to Identify "A2 Werber Leather Coat Co. Contract 1729" " thread, started by Shawn and which goes on for 17 pages and is still continuing as of the last hour. It's difficult for me the believe that someone taking that much time and care to get the details on what may be a one off jacket for a customer would deliberately try to cheat another customer. I don't know Shawn and have never bought one of his products and so have no bias one way or the other, but this complaint seems very out of character for 5 star. Just saying...
FreddyF9
Well-Known Member
Completely agree, sometimes mistakes are made, everyone does; even the big brands did have their faults at the beginning. Remember that Fivestar started just few years ago.
That said, let’s see how their business will develop and if the problems mentioned in this thread will be corrected.
Chris 55
Well-Known Member
Just to add if you look at a jacket any jacket how its made put together or even attempted to repair one you will start to understand how hard this would be to make from pictures.
I understand where Shawn is coming from and believe he is getting more and more genuine jackets as pattern to work from which I'm sure it will improve the end product.
I might add that I still don't own a 5 star jacket but I will at some point when I think it's the right one for me.
I understand where Shawn is coming from and believe he is getting more and more genuine jackets as pattern to work from which I'm sure it will improve the end product.
I might add that I still don't own a 5 star jacket but I will at some point when I think it's the right one for me.
YoungMedic
Well-Known Member
New Fivestar Steerhide Werber out of the box. Shawn and team have been putting in some serious work if you follow their Facebook page, lots of new jackets. This one is every bit as good as my A1 at first inspection, I'm very satisfied with it. I imagine it's just like getting a wartime jacket. When I get some time I've got some reviews to write a. So much to do, so little time. Thanks Shawn!
bach37strad
Member
Wow. Things here got heated since I last checked...
Just wanted to give yall an update on my custom G8 situation. After alot of thought, and speaking with Shawn, He offered to take the jacket back and replace it with one made in steer hide. I sent it back a little over a month ago, and just received the new jacket today.
First let me say the fit is outstanding, and the quality of the stitching seems superb. I also notice that the steer hide is significantly thicker/heavier than the Horsehide of the first, which is perfect, and much more of what I expected in a fall/winter leather coat. The leather is incredibly soft and smooth to the touch, so I'm curious to see how it will wear in.
From the pictures I've seen here the HH only seems to be the hides with the peeling issues, whereas the steer just tends to friction wear rather quickly. Obviously neither is ideal, but of the two I definitely would prefer a friction type wear that could much more easily be touched up with a bit of seal feibings leather dye down the road if need be.
Regarding some of yall questioning Shawn's character, I truly believe Shawn is trying to provide top quality jackets at a MORE than reasonable price. I myself would never be able to afford an Eastman or Aero, so I seriously appreciate the effort going into Five Star. What I find interesting is I believe Shawn is tanning the hides themselves, which personally I've never heard of a leatherworker doing. Maybe it's not uncommon for jacket makers, idk. But the folk I know that make wallets, purses and holsters generally order theirs from an established tannery. With this in mind, I think it's fair to give Shawn a bit of leeway concerning materials, especially new hides that they are just beginning to work with like the HH. ESPECIALLY considering how Shawn has been more than willing to make a bad situation right, both in my experience, and from what I've seen in this forum.
I can't attest to Five Star's quality as far as a tannery goes. But the quality of construction on both jackets was absolutely phenomenal for any price. Let alone what he actually charges.
At the end of the day, Shawn went above and beyond for me to complete replace a $350 custom order jacket, even though he was under no obligation to do so. That in and of itself speaks volumes about the kind of buisiness Shawn is trying to run, and I would ask that yall give him the benefit of the doubt in situations like mine.
All in all, while it took a little longer and cost me a little more for the return shipping, I am absolutely thrilled with my replacement jacket, and I will gladly do business with five star again, and won't hesitate to recommend them. Just stick to their more mainstream hides for the time being.
Just wanted to give yall an update on my custom G8 situation. After alot of thought, and speaking with Shawn, He offered to take the jacket back and replace it with one made in steer hide. I sent it back a little over a month ago, and just received the new jacket today.
First let me say the fit is outstanding, and the quality of the stitching seems superb. I also notice that the steer hide is significantly thicker/heavier than the Horsehide of the first, which is perfect, and much more of what I expected in a fall/winter leather coat. The leather is incredibly soft and smooth to the touch, so I'm curious to see how it will wear in.
From the pictures I've seen here the HH only seems to be the hides with the peeling issues, whereas the steer just tends to friction wear rather quickly. Obviously neither is ideal, but of the two I definitely would prefer a friction type wear that could much more easily be touched up with a bit of seal feibings leather dye down the road if need be.
Regarding some of yall questioning Shawn's character, I truly believe Shawn is trying to provide top quality jackets at a MORE than reasonable price. I myself would never be able to afford an Eastman or Aero, so I seriously appreciate the effort going into Five Star. What I find interesting is I believe Shawn is tanning the hides themselves, which personally I've never heard of a leatherworker doing. Maybe it's not uncommon for jacket makers, idk. But the folk I know that make wallets, purses and holsters generally order theirs from an established tannery. With this in mind, I think it's fair to give Shawn a bit of leeway concerning materials, especially new hides that they are just beginning to work with like the HH. ESPECIALLY considering how Shawn has been more than willing to make a bad situation right, both in my experience, and from what I've seen in this forum.
I can't attest to Five Star's quality as far as a tannery goes. But the quality of construction on both jackets was absolutely phenomenal for any price. Let alone what he actually charges.
At the end of the day, Shawn went above and beyond for me to complete replace a $350 custom order jacket, even though he was under no obligation to do so. That in and of itself speaks volumes about the kind of buisiness Shawn is trying to run, and I would ask that yall give him the benefit of the doubt in situations like mine.
All in all, while it took a little longer and cost me a little more for the return shipping, I am absolutely thrilled with my replacement jacket, and I will gladly do business with five star again, and won't hesitate to recommend them. Just stick to their more mainstream hides for the time being.
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leper-colony
Well-Known Member
Wut....no pictures! Lol!
bach37strad
Member
Sorry, was at work. Here ya go. Pleas excuse the nasty bathroom mirror, and the bathing suit. It was 95° in my shop today.
Little wrinkly on the left side from being folded in shipping, but no serious creases. Should come out pretty easy.
leper-colony
Well-Known Member
Wow, that does look really nice!!
Thomas Koehle
Well-Known Member
Nice one - good fit
bach37strad
Member
Thanks! I'm really excited to wear it. Unfortunately I missed the weather for it down here in the Carolinas. Hopefully come October, I'll be able to start breaking it in.
