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Another Erich Hartmann flight jacket

CombatWombat

Well-Known Member
@Kermit3D
Most cyclists jacket are cowhide and not horse (could you imagine trying to do any sort of physical activity in that style/extremely talored type of jacket in horsehide o_O)
Cow is definitely more likely due to the flexibility and "stretch" that horse doesn't have
 

Kermit3D

Well-Known Member
@Kermit3D
Most cyclists jacket are cowhide and not horse (could you imagine trying to do any sort of physical activity in that style/extremely talored type of jacket in horsehide o_O)
Cow is definitely more likely due to the flexibility and "stretch" that horse doesn't have
It's an interesting point of view that I hadn't thought of. I don't have enough experience to perceive differences in flexibility between horsehide and cowhide. I've simply read that it's very difficult to distinguish them visually.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
Hi G. all,
agree with all of your comments.. but… a special order well paid is a welcome income… hope it answers all. :cool:
One buyer/high payer asked for an aluminum front buckle instead of the magnetic iron chrome plated buckle… we made it for him because of his chrome and nickel alergy… we do everything for €€€/¥¥¥$$$£££ :cool:
 
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Pilot

Well-Known Member
@Kermit3D
Most cyclists jacket are cowhide and not horse (could you imagine trying to do any sort of physical activity in that style/extremely talored type of jacket in horsehide o_O)
Cow is definitely more likely due to the flexibility and "stretch" that horse doesn't have
100% with you.. especially not shinki or horween…
Very correct info.. but payer is King.
 

CombatWombat

Well-Known Member
It's an interesting point of view that I hadn't thought of. I don't have enough experience to perceive differences in flexibility between horsehide and cowhide. I've simply read that it's very difficult to distinguish them visually.
Maybe it's my experience on motorcycles but you definitely need some sort of gussets/expansion pleats for horsehide if it's a fitted jacket like this for freedom of movement, whereas cow has got some give to it.
It's different on more looser fitting jackets and coats (like a half belt coat, trench coat or even American styled motorcycle/police jackets) because they're not cut as high and narrow on the arms and tapered in the torso
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
Maybe it's my experience on motorcycles but you definitely need some sort of gussets/expansion pleats for horsehide if it's a fitted jacket like this for freedom of movement, whereas cow has got some give to it.
It's different on more looser fitting jackets and coats (like a half belt coat, trench coat or even American styled motorcycle/police jackets) because they're not cut as high and narrow on the arms and tapered in the torso
In France no gussets prior Ebay… but yes for some Gov. issued jackets/coats they have an opening in the pits ( like a big button hole ).
Furthermore and by trials… if the arm/pit opening towards the torso is generous enough and no ( air ) tight knitwork, gussets are useless like t.ts on a bull… ( sorry to be crude ).
 

CombatWombat

Well-Known Member
100% with you.. especially not shinki or horween…
Very correct info.. but payer is King.
I'm not talking about the horrible horsehide of today....
horsehide of any decade and any tannery methods is like this because no amount of money will make horsehide drape or flex like cow will.
That's why certain clothing is made from certain materials.....because different tailoring methods work with specific materials and fabrics.

Doesn't mean that the design or leathers is faulty....just that a A-1 looks it's best in capeskin rather than the hefty and stiff horsehide LW uses ;)
 

CombatWombat

Well-Known Member
In France no gussets prior Ebay… but yes for some Gov. issued jackets/coats they have an opening in the pits ( like a big button hole ).
Furthermore and by trials… if the arm/pit opening is generous enough and no ( air ) tight knitwork gussets are useless like t.ts on a bull… ( sorry to ve crude ).
And that's why France isn't known for high quality leather jackets made from horses ;)
I'll say that French used to make fantastic military boots and HBT uniforms but robust leather jackets are much to be desired unfortunately (military/gendarme/firemen jackets seems to be sheepskin or a similar thin drapey leather (
 

Kermit3D

Well-Known Member
Hi G. all,
agree with all of your comments.. but… a special order well paid is a welcome income… hope it answers all. :cool:
One buyer/high payer asked for an aluminum front buckle instead of the magnetic iron chrome plated buckle… we made it for him because of his chrome and nickel alergy… we do everything for €€€/¥¥¥$$$£££ :cool:

It's interesting that you mention that.
On my original cyclist jacket (which you know because you owned it for a while), the buckle is made of a kind of metal that's quite soft and very light. I'm pretty sure it's aluminim (no magnetism). This singularity has always intrigued me... yet I'm 99% sure it's an original buckle. The design and shape are exactly the same as the other iron buckles I own.
Have you ever seen another aluminum buckle ?

dsc_0983-jpg.81306


Maybe it's my experience on motorcycles but you definitely need some sort of gussets/expansion pleats for horsehide if it's a fitted jacket like this for freedom of movement, whereas cow has got some give to it.
It's different on more looser fitting jackets and coats (like a half belt coat, trench coat or even American styled motorcycle/police jackets) because they're not cut as high and narrow on the arms and tapered in the torso

That makes a lot of sense.
Something I wasn't aware of, thank you.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
A little add…
During the 1940-1944 time 90% of the Blousons Cyclistes were made out of pigskin.. due to obvious reasons..
Apologies if I do not continue this… ( especially in consideration of my buyers from the Gulf.)
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
It's interesting that you mention that.
On my original cyclist jacket (which you know because you owned it for a while), the buckle is made of a kind of metal that's quite soft and very light. I'm pretty sure it's aluminim (no magnetism). This singularity has always intrigued me... yet I'm 99% sure it's an original buckle. The design and shape are exactly the same as the other iron buckles I own.
Have you ever seen another aluminum buckle ?

dsc_0983-jpg.81306




That makes a lot of sense.
Something I wasn't aware of, thank you.
Thats the low cost jacket from Ratisbon’s?
 

Nickb123

Well-Known Member
These may some of be the nicest repros of any kind I’ve seen. Not my specialty by any means but wow.

Shame I’m too tall and I know I’d be a pest requesting extra length!
 

ZuZu

Well-Known Member
@Kermit3D
Most cyclists jacket are cowhide and not horse (could you imagine trying to do any sort of physical activity in that style/extremely talored type of jacket in horsehide o_O)
Cow is definitely more likely due to the flexibility and "stretch" that horse doesn't have
That is a current problem- and in fact even today some thin Horween hides are indistinguishable from cowhide. IMO there was no difference back when between steerhide and horsehide- in fact it took DNA resting to prove that a good portion of what we all assumed were horsehide vintage jackets were actually cow.

Today cowhide seems to be tanned differently for some reason- processed A LOT! In real life you could take a horse skin and a cow skin and make them look and act exactly the same. I really don't think there's any difference.

If you look at old WW2 films you can see how supple and giving the leather was (that sounds a bit creepy-eh?). There was a lot of the natural moisture left in the leather and I think that for some reason the tanning process used back then can't be replicated today. So horeshide today is stiffer generally and cowhide is thin and stretchy. Except some Horween...
 
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Pilot

Well-Known Member
To get your cut, you need to comply with the demand ( HH or others ) and somehow be special… all others are covered by cheapies or ( historical accuracy) ignorants.
 

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