Whats the magic with japanese made A2's?

[Pa12]

And their cars. There is no magic. I just think there’s no beating gw and I’ve wasted far too much money on others in the past. As I only have 2 or 3 jackets I’m sticking with gw with no regrets or second guessing. I can only see the benefit in lower price jackets if you want a closet full, patches, experiments etc.

 

[Pa12]

Of course a closet full of originals would be nice. Like someone who needs not be named

 

[Kermit3D]

They are incredibly well sewn. They look good when worn at least in smaller sizes. But all that aside I think that it is the weird cultural divide between us and the Japanese which makes the jackets interesting. They make the repro a thing unto itself (if that makes any sense). The Japanese don't necessarily care about making a perfect copy- it's about picking and choosing the parts that catch that Japanese aesthetic and incoporating very fine focused details with it.
They make it so the reproduction becomes as cool as the original itself (in their eyes) so they don't have to make a perfect copy.

I went to the Real Mcoy's store in Tokyo- one of the most interesting days of my life. All this American stuff laid out beautifully- every piece seemed interesting and cool- like a museum piece. Echoes of a perfect fantasy 60s surplus store. There was an unusual reverence there (as everywhere in Japan)- but what's also true is that the jackets when sold to the native Japanese will be part of specific culture which doesn't really have any reverence for what WE think. It is all about the look and that strange overarching historical fact of the American occupation.

An interesting point of view.

 

[Enigma1938]

This was an educational thread. Over the years I have looked at Japanese leather jacket makers and wondered if their prices are totally justified. Now I believe I know and will stick to supporting more local makers.That said I know their blades and their motorcycles are about the very best available and their slight premiums are absolutely justified.

Yes but the best stuff available and the best looking stuff are not always the same. In terms of the things I am interested in like authenticity in details material and look those (current) japanese Jackets are very uninteresting to me even it's the best material on earth.
So from the material position the prices may be justified, from the historical aspect not.
To each his own...

 

[veli1]

I don't think there is any magic. Undoubtedly well made and somewhat over engineered but generally characterless clones.

I agree, there isn't any magic..Just a lot of guys with a plenty of money willing to pay 100 000+ Yen even for a second hand Buzz Rickson or Real Mccoy's A2. Just visit Mercari or Yahoo auction Japan...

 

[Kermit3D]

I also think that Japanese brands like Real McCoy and Buzz Rickson produce primarily for Japanese people. And vice versa, Japanese people are more inclined to buy Japanese products.
It's an island with a specific market.

In an interview with John Chapman (available somewhere on the forum), he says that strangely enough he sells almost nothing to Japanese.

I guess there is also the language barrier. Japanese people don't speak much English, and non-Japanese people don't speak Japanese at all (with rare exceptions). It doesn't help to do business.


And as ZuZu rightly says (if I understood correctly), Japanese people have developed an "imaginary" of American airmen (who was the enemy) different from ours. This probably explains in part why the RMC and BR jackets do not quite match our expectations.



Edit : What is said above concerns leather jackets.

 

[mulceber]

Japanese people have developed an "imaginary" of American airmen (who was the enemy) different from ours.

That's the point that has occasionally bemused (or perhaps "amused") me - seeing photos of Japanese men proudly wearing M-422As patched up with the insignia of a squadron that fought in the PTO, or a Flying Tigers A-2 jacket. Times really do change!

 

[Enigma1938]

I also think that Japanese brands like Real McCoy and Buzz Rickson produce primarily for Japanese people

Yes, if you look on all the sales with jackets from this brands they are usually in sizes 36 38 (with very few exceptions) just made for the small and slender Japs.

 

[Pa12]

That's the point that has occasionally bemused (or perhaps "amused") me - seeing photos of Japanese men proudly wearing M-422As patched up with the insignia of a squadron that fought in the PTO, or a Flying Tigers A-2 jacket. Times really do change!

You just gave me a flashback. First time I went to Dayton there was a group of older Japanese folks huddled around the replica of “the bomb “. Felt a bit awkward so I moved along.

 

[Pa12]

That was in 1984. So if you do the math…….awkward.

 

[Kermit3D]

That's the point that has occasionally bemused (or perhaps "amused") me - seeing photos of Japanese men proudly wearing M-422As patched up with the insignia of a squadron that fought in the PTO, or a Flying Tigers A-2 jacket. Times really do change!

Yeah I always thought it was surprising. I wonder what the Japanese WWII fighters would have thought if they saw Japan's infatuation with American culture a few decades after the war.
Of course, I'm not making any judgement, I always prefer to see people reconcile.

 

[Pa12]

Yeah I always thought it was surprising. I wonder what the Japanese WWII fighters would have thought if they saw Japan's infatuation with American culture a few decades after the war.
Of course, I'm not making any judgement, I always prefer to see people reconcile.

Probably most are far removed enough, or enough time has passed that there’s no real meaning behind it anymore. Just a cool fashion. And even as a kid in the 60’s playing with GIjoes and toy guns, I knew some kids, including my brother, who always had the German stuff. No thought behind it , just thought it was cooler stuff.

 

[Pa12]

I never really thought of it , but those kids who played with German kit all had father’s who served in the Canadian military overseas during the war. Didn’t seem to bother anyone.
My dad was overseas so I feel a slight connection. My grandfather served overseas in ww1 ,so there’s even less connection. Now we’re into generations who’s great grandfathers and beyond we’re in ww2 and it will just fade into history. Time marches on.

 

[Enigma1938]

....Now we’re into generations who’s great grandfathers and beyond we’re in ww2 and it will just fade into history. Time marches on.

Not at all. WW2 was the biggest and most fierce conflict in human history. I doubt that it will fade away with all his personalities, story's and material stuff. It's a league of its own

 

[ZuZu]

That's the point that has occasionally bemused (or perhaps "amused") me - seeing photos of Japanese men proudly wearing M-422As patched up with the insignia of a squadron that fought in the PTO, or a Flying Tigers A-2 jacket. Times really do change!

I think they don't care. The older generations first had that strange love/hate awe of the conquerer. The occupation of Japan was by far the best thing MacArthur accomplished- so we have a Japan intact culturally with modern Western politics and economy. I don't think newer generations have that our guys you guys mentality- I think that like all things Japanese they have made it an aesthetic thing. So for us it's weird but not for them.
My favorite country in the world in some ways- but being a smelly messy selfish Westerner I know I could never live there.

 

[ZuZu]

Not at all. WW2 was the biggest and most fierce conflict in human history. I doubt that it will fade away with all his personalities, story's and material stuff. It's a league of its own

You're right about that! In many ways this memory of WW2 is used to convince modern people to do stupid shit. Everyone we don't like is Hitler- every competitor is in the Axis. It suits Them.

 

[Pilot]

Apologies upfront if all your comments are a bit amusing for someone living working/earning in …Japan…S-Korea… and Asia in general… since approx. 6 years.
First hand info…
In Japan ( similar in S-Korea ) … my driver makes net net net ( a bit complicated to compare with EU socialist/ union driven standards ) 4800 Euro net net net.( mostly all deducted compared to EU standards ).
His wife working in a 7/11 makes approx 3000 Euro for the same standard…
They rent a bit of property all in all for approx 5500 euro… all per month…
A 2500 Euro plus plus ..once an a while „ hobby pleasure „ is nothing for them… plus the prestige… plus the no other fun syndrome…
They go and are glad to pay 10.000 Euro per 10 days vacation „ à la japonaise „ in any country ( ya..almost.. except not in strike unrest north Africa garbage striken France anymore ) ..of this globe
Just to meditate and compare …
BTW… retirement age in Japan ? S-Korea ? what’s that?
Maybe it helps to understand…
No offence.. no ranting intended.

 

[Pa12]

Apologies upfront if all your comments are a bit amusing for someone living working/earning in …Japan…S-Korea… and Asia in general… since approx. 6 years.
First hand info…
In Japan ( similar in S-Korea ) … my driver makes net net net ( a bit complicated to compare with EU socialist/ union driven standards ) 4800 Euro net net net.( mostly all deducted compared to EU standards ).
His wife working in a 7/11 makes approx 3000 Euro for the same standard…
They rent a bit of property all in all for approx 5500 euro… all per month…
A 2500 Euro plus plus ..once an a while „ hobby pleasure „ is nothing for them… plus the prestige… plus the no other fun syndrome…
They go and are glad to pay 10.000 Euro per 10 days vacation „ à la japonaise „ in any country ( ya..almost.. except not in strike unrest north Africa garbage striken France anymore ) ..of this globe
Just to meditate and compare …
BTW… retirement age in Japan ? S-Korea ? what’s that?
Maybe it helps to understand…
No offence.. no ranting intended.

I’m sure that’s reflected in the price of their jackets which are probably primarily for there own market.

 

[Pa12]

Not at all. WW2 was the biggest and most fierce conflict in human history. I doubt that it will fade away with all his personalities, story's and material stuff. It's a league of its own

For sure, I just mean the personal connection will fade not having close living relatives who were directly involved.

 

[Pilot]

I’m sure that’s reflected in the price of their jackets which are probably primarily for there own market.

Yesss! and only the 2nd and 3rd choice is sold on the net ( except second hand/used )… and here its quoted…