To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1 - EBAY THEFT

[Lignemaginot]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Just noticed in the sunlight that there used to be patches on the right chest and the right sleeve - very hard to tell, but they were there at some point...

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Nice jacket! If you really feel uncomfortable about the rank, just use a seam ripper to remove (CAREFULLY) the stitches. I'd do it from the top layer to avoid snagging the nylon fabric--this way if you slip the seam ripper will only make contact with the plastic enclosure. Once the rank is removed, carefully pull out any remaining thread with your fingers (do this from the inside if possible). Finally, you can try lightly misting the stitch holes with water followed by a going-over with a COOL iron. This should minimize the appearance of the stitching.

On the other hand, I just noticed that you found evidence of earlier patching. An alternative would be to replace the missing patches to the best of your ability, as discussed earlier in the thread. However, this may preclude wearing the jacket. I don't envy your dilemma . . . :lol:

 

[Willy McCoy]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Just my opinion, but his jacket has most likely seen "seat time" and to remove the existing rank/name holder would relegate the jacket to a pre-existing form. Pedigree is a good thing. If you live outside of the U.S.A. there is no worry being jailed for wearing a ranked jacket (especially obsolete rank) and if you live in the U.S.A. there is very little chance of being jailed for having a ranked jacket. One merely has to go through the Buzz Rickson catalog to see the reproduction being sold with rank and patches. Enjoy!! A very nice jacket BTW. These choices/opinions you have been presented with are all very good.

 

[dav3469]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Nice find, looks like a great jacket. I would leave it as is for its "historical" value.

While folks have opinions about "should" or "should not" when wearing patches/rank/qualification badges, legally just having a jacket and wearing it is not going to be enough
to get a person (civilian that is. I would say it is likely that a serving military member might be in strife if he or she is wearing qual badges and rank not his own.. even if a "historical" garment) "in trouble" for impersonation of an officer/military member/government employee. There are other elements to the actual "crime".

Wearing something that you are prepared to explain as a tribute, historical relic, family heirloom is not a problem legally. Its when people start down the "Poser" path, that problems
occur. I personally don't patch out jackets, but I sure have liked some I have seen from those that do. Its a personal belief and choice issue.

 

[deand]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Just ran across the photos of your jacket and you have a jacket there that is a wonderful piece to own. Patch it if you wish, it's a gem!





dean

 

[greyhound52]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Great jacket. Have the same one same size. Mine has an original patch on it which I left on. On the rank issue it is a toss up. I have an original B-15D mod with full bird COL rank (black leather ones). I wear it but I am a retired COL so I guess I can get away with. I don't like to wear jackets with rank or put them on. I can see your issue. In the end it is what you are comfortable with.

 

[Lignemaginot]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

I know that it's not illegal wear military rank - I just view it as mildly disrespectful and somewhat "poser", given that the most I ever achieved militarily was to shoot as Bisley for the cadet corps in the UK. Will have to think about this one.

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Actually, under US law it probably is illegal to wear the rank under these circumstances (10 USC 771,772) but the likelihood of being prosecuted is slim. I'd still say you should do what you feel comfortable with. Most anyone who even notices will probably understand and respect your motivation for wearing the jacket. Go out on the flight line of a base and start barking out orders--different story. :lol:

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Very nice jacket!!! Don't worry about the fading. The very early MA-1s seem to exhibit this problem more than the orange lined early 60s MA-1s. I agree with most that if you intend to wear it, carefully remove the rank and reinstall when/if you decide to sell later on.

 

[Willy McCoy]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

It's kinda' funny, but legally just having an Air Force jacket is technically unlawful. At the bottom of every nomenclature tag it is clearly written "U.S. XXXXXXX Property". I've never been in the military for health reasons (4F) but have an appreciation for the high quality of mil. spec. garments. I wear flight jackets and other vintage jackets all the time. Not once have I ever felt like a poser. A lot of test pilots have given their lives for the furtherance of national security either directly or indirectly, yet when I put on a test pilots' jacket no occurrence of violation has arisen. I have never felt that when another member here dons a flight jacket that he/she is a poser but rather, "what a fine thing". I guess it's all in the label that one wishes to attach to another.

 

[SuinBruin]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

If you bought it as a wearer, and you're not comfortable wearing it with the rank insignia, go ahead and take them off. It sounds like other patches have already been removed, so it's not as though you're defiling a virgin piece of military history.

In my experience, liking a piece of clothing almost enough usually means you wind up hardly ever wearing it. You'll always reach for something you like better. Just FWIW....

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Lignemaginot]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

I ended up selling the jacket on ebay - didn't want to remove the insignia, and didn't want to wear it with the insignia.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MESOX:IT

Unfortunately, I just received an email from the new owner:

"Hi i just received the jacket and it is not original the collar, the waist band and the cuffs have all been replaced you can clearly see the needle marks and the decal on the sleeve was done over and not lined up right, which makes it not original as you stated I am dissatisfied because it is all redone the jacket and it is not worth what i paid because it is not original it is worth between 175.00 to 200.00 dollars at most i am a large collector of MA1 green on green if you like a fair price between 175.00 to 200.00 get back to me if not i would like to return the jacket because it is all made up for a full refund let me know ASAP"

My inclination is to refund him the full price, plus shipping both ways, rather than accept his offer. This is the first nylon jacket that I ever purchased - have to admit that I didn't look too closely at the thing - just went with what the seller told me when I bought it. Assuming that this buyer knows what he's talking about, is his offer fair?

Clive

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Clive:

I must say that I was surprised at how high your jacket sold for. I haven't seen prices like that for several years. I'm not sure if this is a sign of economic improvement or merely an isolated alignment of stars and planets, but in any case I'd say the buyer is trying to jerk you around. His offer of $175-200 may well be what he thinks the jacket is worth, but there are others who would pay more. In a way I can relate to him because having a number of these myself I feel that I can afford to pass on jackets unless they're priced low, but then again no one told him to bid so high. In my opinion a decent early MA-1 is easily worth $300 or thereabouts, and I've paid more than that on numerous occasions--with varying degrees of satisfaction.

I recommend that you take the jacket back and either make a Second Chance Offer to the next highest bidder or just keep it. No point in throwing it away to indulge this particular buyer. Regarding his gripes about the jacket, it's entirely possible that repairs were done while the jacket was in service. To me that's not an issue as long as the work is good.

 

[deeb7]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

I think I would refund, and re-list later with a new description. Hopefully the second sale will do better than his offer ... even if it didn't I'd be happier having tried.

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

I just can't believe that with this sellers experience, he didn't notice the decal had been doubled over, the clean knits don't match the wear on the leather pull and paint on the snaps. :? $455 is high for this rebuild, but worth more than what this seller wants to pay. A honest and fair price to be expected for this model would be closer to $200-325 in my opinion.

I'd say a second chance for another bidder or try again with another listing.

 

[Tim P]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Those photos tell all you need to know. The claim on the listing that the knits are original does lessen the strength of your case but he bid as a volunteer. If he is that much of an expert he needs a wake up call. Bid that much on a piece you can handle.
For the future never make definite claims about something you havent owned from new, a vague claim based on your best judgement is preferable.
I bought a 63 n3b recently that was torn and rotted with irretrievable ver de gris. I did what the vendor should have done and binned it. I didnt kick up a stink. caveat emptor.
This guy seems the the sort of tool who would post negative feedback though. I think a full refund in response to his gripe removes the opporunity for him to be a chancer. aa second chance offer could save the day for you.

 

[Lignemaginot]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

I always give a 100% satisfaction guarantee, so even if the person just decides they had a moment of madness, I'll still take it back (although in that case I wouldn't pay for the shipping); in this case, given that I apparently erred in the description, I'll also pay for the shipping.

I told him that I would take $325 for it, in which case I'm still taking a large haircut. If not, I think I'd rather just keep it and wear it for a while.

Thanks again,
Clive

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Clive:

Kudos to you for integrity. In this situation you're doing the right thing. I personally feel that $325 is a more realistic price for the jacket, but then I'm not the one who bid higher. If he goes for it that's great, but if not you could do a lot worse than to have that jacket in your collection.

What really gets me is that even if the pictures don't clearly show the stitching around the knits, one can definitely see where the more recent decal was superimposed. I've had jackets like this and never gave it a thought. Both the decal and knits could very well have been replaced in an Air Force repair shop 50 years ago (with correct, GI-issue components), while the jacket was in active military use. Does this truly mean the jacket is not "original" as alleged, or is it much ado about nothing?

I still can't help thinking this guy is trying to put one over on you. If the buyer really knows so much about these jackets he would likely have bid more responsibly.

 

[Tim P]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Absolutely.

 

[deeb7]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

I still can't help thinking this guy is trying to put one over on you.

I think so too, it's easy to bid high when you know there's a big reduction coming.