To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1 - EBAY THEFT

[Lignemaginot]

I recently acquired my first Nylon jacket - a rather mint, sage-green, first contract (MIL-J-8279) MA-1, manufactured by Skyline.

My (limited) understanding is that this jacket would have been manufactured in 49-50, but could have realistically been used through about 59.

I have an original Squadron Patch for the 85th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron, which was operational from 52 to 59.

Several questions then - were Squadron patches commonly applied to the MA-1? If yes, should it go on the left chest (like the A-2), or can it go on the right (there's a plastic ID shield on the left at the moment...). And finally, am I going to reduce the value of the jacket by applying the patch?

Clive

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

There have been several discussions regarding the date the MA-1 was introduced, with many accounts relying on the Japanese treatises. I'd say '49-'50 is a bit early as estimates go, and I'm also willing to bet that the early MA-1s were worn well past the late '50s (one VLJ member recalled seeing oxygen-mask tabs on jackets issued in his USAF unit in the late '70s-early '80s).

Regarding squadron patches, they were definitely worn on these jackets. The right side of the chest seems a safe bet as to placement--as with your jacket, the left was typically where the badge holder was affixed (or in some cases the leather nameplate was sewn directly to the jacket). I'm not sure sewing on a patch will affect the value of the jacket or not, but it seems a shame to alter its original state. Personally I tend to leave mint unpatched jackets as they are, but I enjoy replacing missing patches on used examples.

 

[Swing]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

And finally, am I going to reduce the value of the jacket by applying the patch?

Clive

Yes. That jacket is as valuable as it's going to be in its current state.

MA-1s weren't around until after the Korean War. The date hasn't been nailed down exactly, but I'd put money on no earlier than 1955.

~Swing

 

[Lignemaginot]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Dang. I know that if I knew I was going to "hang on to the jacket forever" I should go ahead and do whatever I want to it... but personally, I never hold on to these things forever, so re-sale is important.

I know from my A-2 collecting never to ruin an original (or repro for that matter) jacket by stitching anything to it... it leaves the stamp-like perforations that can never be fixed. Is it the same thing with the nylon jackets? Or will the holes "disappear" if you remove the patch?

 

[deand]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

The holes will remain. I have a jacket that had a patch removed. You can see where it was sewn.








dean

 

[Peter Graham]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

The holes will remain. I have a jacket that had a patch removed. You can see where it was sewn.

They are not half as visible as on a leather jacket though.

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

True. I've sprayed a few of mine with water and run a cool iron over the stitch holes. They diminish considerably.

 

[deand]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

True. I've sprayed a few of mine with water and run a cool iron over the stitch holes. They diminish considerably.

Having never tried this, I stand corrected, and in fact look forward to the improvement in my jacket's appearence. Thanks for the tip!




dean

 

[Tim P]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

I would patch an original if I knew or could take an educated guess at what patches had been removed, replacing with something the correct shape and size to obscure marks from before.
A near mint unbadged one would stay as was and a used repro would take the patches.
That is my ethic with the whole dilemma

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

My thoughts exactly. It's interesting to find that some originals bear evidence of several prior units, and these are the best ones to restore in my opinion.

 

[Tim P]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

yup,
Restore... replacing missing insignia sympathetically, knits, zips and stains attended to
Recreate..an original example in reproduction form
Respect... a mint item that has made it this far
Revel in the pieces' appeal, whatever your choices

 

[greyhound52]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

yup,
Restore... replacing missing insignia sympathetically, knits, zips and stains attended to
Recreate..an original example in reproduction form
Respect... a mint item that has made it this far
Revel in the pieces' appeal, whatever your choices

Wow the four r's for jackets

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Ah, the adventure of nylon patching. Much discussed in the past here and always a joy to delve back into the topic.

My personal feelings on patching a mint first edition MA-1 is that it will reduce the value especially if you remove the original patch when you sell it. Sometimes leaving the "original" patch on will increase the value. It's a really tough call.

Now as far as placement goes, there are many, many variations of patching nylon jackets through the 50s and 60s. Most units followed this format.

Left chest- Name tape on early nylon and leather tag under plastic for mid 50s to very early 70s nylon.
Right chest- Squadron patch
*Note- Aircrew assigned at Wing level would wear Wing patch instead of squadron patch on right chest.

Some units would use this format.

Left chest- Name tape/tag, Squadron patch above or below name tape/tag
Right chest- Wing Patch
Right sleeve- Aircraft associated patch (ex. F-105 Arrowhead patch)

Yet another format

Left chest- Name tape/tag
Right chest- Squadron patch
Right sleeve- Wing patch

So many variations and I have not seen any documentation on procedures or protocols for patching. All my info comes from viewing tons of photos and my experiences in/around aircrew in my AF career. I'll attach some photos of different variations to help out. The one thing that seems to be pretty consistent is the fact that most squadrons or wings went with the same variation. Usually whatever the squadron or wing commander wanted.

Here is a group of pilots from the 22nd and 23rd Fighter Squadrons out of Bitburg AB, Germany. These are cloth patches on a leather backing. Notice the name tapes having the squadron on the tapes also.

Group of 7th Fighter Squadron pilots out of Spangdahlem AB, Germany, but could be after relocation to Holloman AFB, NM seeing as how they have F-4 patches and photos in the background.

Group of 80th TFS pilots and what I believe is a wing commander since he's a Col and doesn't have a squadron patch on.

Nice group photo of 63rd and 64th aircrew from the 43rd Bomb Wing. They all have the wing patch on the right sleeve. Some have Bomb Comp patches also on the right sleeve.

305th B-58 pilot. Wing patches on right chest and right sleeve. This unit was one of the few that utilized two different wing patches.

 

[usafwso]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Break out the sewing machine!!!!!!!!

 

[deeb7]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

There have been several discussions regarding the date the MA-1 was introduced, with many accounts relying on the Japanese treatises. I'd say '49-'50 is a bit early as estimates go ...

One of those offending Japanese treatises, puts the date of the first Skyline contract at FY 1956, with the MIL-J-8279 spec. being 27-SEP-1953.

 

[Lignemaginot]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Superb photos - thanks for that.

I'll be receiving the jacket shortly, I hope... but from the description, it has never had patches, so at this point I'm presuming that that is the way it will stay.

Will post photos when it arrives.

C.

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

As another note, it seems L-2Bs were patched and worn much more than MA-1s. Pilots and aircrew seemed to favor the lighter L-2Bs as they do today with CWU-36s.

 

[tamoko]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

.

 

[Atticus]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

I'll add my two cents, again.

I generally like to patch nylon jackets because I think nylon jackets look gangsta or skinhead if they don't have military patches. The exception to my rule is "mint" jackets. I only have one, but I intend to leave it as I found it.

When I patch a jacket, I try to copy one that I've seen in an old photo. First, I make sure the jacket I'm patching actually existed when the photo was taken. Then I try to match whatever patches I'm applying to any stitch marks left from prior patches. Whenever possible, I use original patches, even though some original patches cost more than the darned jacket.

Finally, I don't put rank insignia or a name strip with my name on a jacket. Instead, I normally just sew a plastic holder on the left chest and leave it empty.

AF

 

[Lignemaginot]

Re: To patch or not to patch a vintage MA-1

Jacket arrived today. Wow! Again, this is my first Nylon jacket, but from what I can tell, this is in superb condition; cuffs are impeccable, and original.

My only concern is - wanting to be able to wear it - it has Colonel's leaves on the shoulder, under stitched-down plastic shields... no way for me to remove them, and I can't very well wear it with rank. Thoughts?

I've only got my phone camera at the moment, but here are some shots: