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The Collar/Windflap/Zipper intersection- various repros compared to original Aeros- 21996,18775 and 15142

KariJ

Active Member
The point is, if I am spending my money for a jacket for myself (not a current government supplied and issued garment) then I can choose what options give me what I want for my money. In the case of A-2's, I want something that captures the details, minutiae, nuances, and soul of the original garment. The only other adjustment is for it to fit, since I plan to wear it.

Not everyone wants the same attention to detail in their A-2. For most, it will not matter and this just comes across as an OCD disorder. But if it makes me happy to have the X offset, or the zipper tape folded into the lining, then so be it. You buy what you want and I will buy what I want.

Sure, we may be beating a dead horse here, but I will just call it breaking in a horsehide jacket which is one of the highest virtues exalted on this forum.
Sir I understand that But my point is there that what really is authentic ;) referring to pics and those pics are from real issued items - after 75 years plus our grand childrens children will and shall be arguing here abd "what is authentic" Working in mil i really can say authentic is what you get. :) period.
 

ZuZu

Well-Known Member
The point is, if I am spending my money for a jacket for myself (not a current government supplied and issued garment) then I can choose what options give me what I want for my money. In the case of A-2's, I want something that captures the details, minutiae, nuances, and soul of the original garment. The only other adjustment is for it to fit, since I plan to wear it.

Not everyone wants the same attention to detail in their A-2. For most, it will not matter and this just comes across as an OCD disorder. But if it makes me happy to have the X offset, or the zipper tape folded into the lining, then so be it. You buy what you want and I will buy what I want.

Sure, we may be beating a dead horse here, but I will just call it breaking in a horsehide jacket which is one of the highest virtues exalted on this forum.

Beautifully and succinctly put!
 

KariJ

Active Member
Beautifully and succinctly put!
Without taking no part or clarifying the opinion of authentic - Tell me Sirs where to find this holy grail of aurhentic if you guys are not satisfied of seeing pics of normal, usual and common mil specs items :) I shall happily turn towards that heaven and order my jacket from that provider. Just because it is 1:1.
 

ZuZu

Well-Known Member
Without taking no part or clarifying the opinion of authentic - Tell me Sirs where to find this holy grail of aurhentic if you guys are not satisfied of seeing pics of normal, usual and common mil specs items :) I shall happily turn towards that heaven and order my jacket from that provider. Just because it is 1:1.

You seem to be a bit confused- we are saying that repros SHOULD capture the nuances of each WW2 wartime milspec item- not clean it up and interpret it. The are a few makers now who do do this- just research this forum for answers...
 

ZuZu

Well-Known Member
How many parts of uniforms You Sir have ever been wearing in hostile or even in garrison environment.

I guess there is a huge difference between opinions stated around "catwalk" and from "operational environment" Only asking to understand You Sir better.

This is a silly argument- in fact operational environments today re NOTHING like WW2 environments- and secondly- what do you know about me specifically? In fact my argument in this thread is that Ken at Aero of Scotland should be less catwalk and more realistic!
 

ZuZu

Well-Known Member
Ok ok ok ok. You've made your point now give it a bloody rest before people begin to wonder if you and Dave are related. Enough already.

That is the whole hilarious point here! My thread is straight up- I started it to show cold hard facts with photos. I did NOT know about the bad blood between Ken and DD and in fact I don't know DD and have ever communicated with him. You guys in this forum heaped on all the attendant bullshit- like a dysfunctional family uncomfortable with "feelings" and worried about Daddy Ken's reaction!
Why are you mad at me after tolerating BS like I see in this thread:
Again- look at the photos- follow the path of facts- don't worry- Daddy Ken will be the same...
 

petermack09

Well-Known Member
Ok ok ok ok. You've made your point now give it a bloody rest before people begin to wonder if you and Dave are related. Enough already.
Well said that man,,,I can almost hear the banjos with that pair,,,
That’s me done & im off to have a bovril,,nighty night
2B37B0DD-1C02-4E7F-9DC2-2ACDEE59D027.png
 

foster

Well-Known Member
Whatever happened to empirical study of historical evidence? Is that too old-fashioned in this day and age?

If we were buying an authentic copy of a historical document like the Magna Carta or Declaration of Independence we would expect it to look like the original. Replicas of those that substitute modern bleached white paper upset the mix, and we do not make excuses about the manufacturer making what they make and we should be happy to get it... we expect it to look like the genuine item. When it comes to A-2's in the Information Age, we can find photos of the genuine items even if we have not personally owned and handled one.

How is it that we are getting off topic into discussions on personal work and life experiences here, with a scattering of score-settling mixed in as well? Can we not simply and impartially discuss why originals have a propensity to feature certain characteristics while others from different contract, or specific replicas, do not?

Personally, I have seen enough evidence for me to make my own verdict on the details. The drama is secondary and at times distracting, so I am trying to avoid that when and wherever possible.
 

KariJ

Active Member
This is a silly argument- in fact operational environments today re NOTHING like WW2 environments- and secondly- what do you know about me specifically? In fact my argument in this thread is that Ken at Aero of Scotland should be less catwalk and more realistic!
[/QUOe neTE]
No Sir it is not "a silly argument"

Sir it is an argument of a person wearing military garnments in duties commanded and been wearing garnments provided.

Maybe I have never had enough time for this kind of "catwalk" discussion before.

I have always been wearing and using equipment provided. I understand I am working in "not so sexy and well paid profession" but inside that profession I can tell that ppl who are preparing for their mission, that can be the last in their career - they wipe table with this kind of issues. Issues can be like "where to put my extra mags and ammo, is these shades bought by myself strong enough to protect my eyes" These are the issues I personally mean by saying "issues around catwalk". Those jackets and all mil gear are made for purposes of war (surwiving, not to be burned....) I really admire Sir Your skills to say what is "authentic" just by analyzing pictures. I would welcome You Sir to my team in hostile operatinal area and choose gear provided by taxpayers - to see what is "authentic real world".

But as I said along "catwalk" Issues are liitle bit different :)

In my opinion if You Sir refer authentic - go back to purpose of those jackets made and issued.

No further comments Sir
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
That is the whole hilarious point here! My thread is straight up- I started it to show cold hard facts with photos. I did NOT know about the bad blood between Ken and DD and in fact I don't know DD and have ever communicated with him. You guys in this forum heaped on all the attendant bullshit- like a dysfunctional family uncomfortable with "feelings" and worried about Daddy Ken's reaction!
Why are you mad at me after tolerating BS like I see in this thread:
Again- look at the photos- follow the path of facts- don't worry- Daddy Ken will be the same...

See here, it's actually nothing to do with factual information, that's good and I'm all for it. No, it's the sarcastic asides and your ego that let you down chap, you don't seem to be able to manage a straight response without it. Don't bother thinking up some cutting remark in response because from this point on, you're blocked.

Cheerio.
 

KariJ

Active Member
He's not even been in this sort of hostile envioroment I'd wager

Not so familiar with scottish strong accent but I got the point :) Hmm from
This is a silly argument- in fact operational environments today re NOTHING like WW2 environments- and secondly- what do you know about me specifically? In fact my argument in this thread is that Ken at Aero of Scotland should be less catwalk and more realistic!
Operational environments are similar, in those "operational environments" people still get killed, they lose their lives, they lose their limbs they lose their eyes... U name it. Those are operational casualties. In that kind of situations one stich there or here is just piece of crap. Even today those young boys and girls they die waering "issue number". Medic gives a shait when he opens that piece of art just to save the life of an individual. But that is different along catwalk :)
 

Rutger

Well-Known Member
That is a real mil fact. Maybe Mr Hugo Boss et al cloud say something different.

Hugo Boss was deeply in the mil stuff at catwalk level; a banned member once started a thread on the looks of uniforms as designed by Hugo Boss for a certain empire.
Just sayin' that Hugo B. is not so good an example ;) .
 

KariJ

Active Member
Still has absolutely nothing to do with a group of folks interested in vintage leather jackets (the premise of this forum) discussing the finer nuances and details of specific WW2 A-2 jacket contracts...
The only "related and rational" picture I have seen here in this context was the picture of M38 offset collar. There was rational ratio of discussion -> "why it is made like that". The rest of this so called "discussion" is in my opinion just against Mr Calder's business and without no real historical background of understanding the "needs and purposes of war".

I really would welcome any of these logistical or stylist genies to my unit that goes to "war". In real war. I really would wipe floor with expressions of "This is silly opinion because".....

Business is business and in niche area that can be really harsh. In a way knowing that "business" where gowt issues are really used, I really can not raise my hat to all comments issued here.

Maybe because of seeing too many "authentic issue labels".
In my opinion if leather jackets made my Mr Calder were needed in some "operational theatre" I would buy those if needed.
Without a context of war, ww2, lack of resources, needs of airforce, and in last phase lack of money, We really can not understand why those jackets inside one pattern or "order" are different. They are just because they are

One should also ask before raising a blaming finger "Is Mr Calders jackets something that would have been accepted by inspector during WW2" Im not a procecutor but let those guys who are banging the issue specs say "why rejected"
 
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