New A2

[mulceber]

Brett, I think you're right, up to a point. When it's someone like you who's experienced a lot of A-2 jackets, it makes sense that you know exactly what fit you like and if you don't like it, you probably never will. But all Holty has to go on is his preconceived notions of how jackets that he's worn in the past have fit. When I first tried on an A-2, I didn't like the fit, and my preconceived notions were flat wrong. A bunch of other people here have had similar experiences. I think until you have well-informed opinions on how a well-fit A-2 should sit on your body, it's better to rely on the advice of others.

 

[Brettafett]

Sure, advice is readily given... Thought that was what I/we were doing

However, if everyones saying it looks good (to them), but it 'feels' uncomfortable, what to do?
Just wear it anyway and get used to it being uncomfortable? Hope the issue corrects itself?
Convince self that thats how A-2s are supposed to fit? (not so)

Imagine spending a wad of cash on a jacket, but you can only wear it with high waisted trousers... Or only with a T-shirt, or only 3 layers...
Thats not they way to wear an A-2, or any jacket.

Depending on leather and pattern, an A-2 even at the correct size might initially feel restrictive to someone wearing one for the first time (not always).
Wearing the jacket often will loosen it up, and over time once broken in, the jacket should feel a lot more comfy. Thats one thing.
And how that jacket appears to others is again very subjective.

However, if an A-2 'feels' short to the wearer when new... One can almost guarantee its going to feel shorter down-the-line after wearing in.
This may or may not bother the wearer... Except, if they do decide to move it on, they're going to get less cash for it.
How many here have moved on jackets due to length issues... Many.
So my friendly 'advice' is to rather move it on as its new with tags, take the lessons (measurements, fit etc) and get something that will feel better.

If it only takes you 1 jacket to work out a comfy fit, then you've done a lot better than most

Im not telling Holty what to do. One should consider all advice offered, and thats all this is... but nothing beats personal experience.
In the end no matter what advice is offered, its you who has to wear it.

Thats the beauty of this forum. Experience, opinions and lessons hard-learned passed on to help others.

 

[Micawber]

To use a hackneyed phrase - 'at the end of the day' - A-2's are a simply constructed military garment originally designed to be capable of being mass produced, in a hurry, for minimal cost, in basic sizes to be issued en mass . It was originally a piece of work wear, even the best reproduction s are not going to be a bespoke sports jacket from Savile Row.

Sometimes it's good to take a step back in order to regain a sense of proportion.

It's an off the peg leather jacket not the holy grail.

 

[Kermit3D]

Imagine spending a wad of cash on a jacket, but you can only wear it with high waisted trousers... Or only with a T-shirt, or only 3 layers...
Thats not they way to wear an A-2, or any jacket.

That's exactly what's happening to me with my cyclist jacket. The very high waist and the fitted cut do not forgive any mistake in the size. The jacket is very restrictive in the movements...
A few days ago I was in the yoghurt aisle of the supermarket, and there a rather small lady asked me if I could grab the caramel creams at the top of the aisle. I thought I wouldn't be able to lift my arms high enough with this damn jacket.
... but I love this jacket so much that I'm willing to make all these sacrifices (I must be a masochist because a second cyclist jacket will arrive in a few weeks).


Besides that, I find my A-2 particularly comfortable and easy to wear. I was very lucky that it worked for me immediately, but above all, I was really well advised and guided by the forum members.

There is another way to approach things. Like the guys during the war : live with the size we were provided and wear it without thinking about details.
I'm sure the coolest way to wear a jacket is to not think about it too much (something I'm not able to do yet, but I'm practicing...).

 

[Lorenzo_l]

Nothing wrong with that bad boy!

Everyone's first A-2 results in "this doesn't f#%king fit!" even if it's the right fit because A-2s are very different from more modern fitting jackets.

My advice? Stop worrying, start wearing the shit out of it, and start saving up for the next one

Lee, its all you.
Opinions and perspectives on fit and appearances differ from person to person.
In the end it you who has to wear it.

Is it comfortable to wear?
Yes, it will likely loosen up with wear. Yes, it will shorten slightly in time, especially the sleeves. Will you be ok with that?

If the fit/ feel bothers you, in my very humble experience, that doesn't go away... you'll likely not wear it. Im in that situation with my ELC Monarch.
Best to move it on while its still 'new'... Maybe Andy will expedite another. Just saying.
(if you do choose to let it go, make sure to take detailed measurements, and as silly as it sounds, write down some comments on fit. Fit is very subjective...)

This par for the course. Almost everyone on this from has been through multiple jackets, before they nailed their 'Goldilocks's Zone"...
I waited a year and half for a GW that didn't fit well... And you can see Kernits amazing Dubow (above) that used to be mine, but it felt a touch roomy. Wasn't getting worn. Now it gets true loving
Point being, these are the hard lessons. But it ends well...

Very good advice, that!

 

[mulceber]

FWIW, Holty's description of the fit (tight across the upper back, short waist, sleeves that ride up when you lift your arms) is pretty typical of most A-2s. I think it would be hard to find contracts that don't do that, at least not without getting baggy. Custom sizing is always an option, but if you change the dimensions too much, then you end up with a jacket that doesn't look right. At the end of the day, these are garments that were designed back when the average man was about 5'8" (1.72m), and the jacket designers seemed to be the under the impression that the larger sizes were meant to be worn by heavyset people who were still about 5'8", rather than basketball players.

That's exactly what's happening to me with my cyclist jacket. The very high waist and the fitted cut do not forgive any mistake in the size. The jacket is very restrictive in the movements...

Yep, and I remember that you ended up buying a couple pairs of high-waisted trousers shortly thereafter. The same thing happened to me when I got my first A-2 (a Dubow, typically regarded as one of the more comfortable contracts): I only had one or maybe two pairs of trousers that I could wear it with, so that entailed making some changes to my wardrobe. That's part of the expense of getting into this hobby - you buy one vintage-styled garment and discover that (surprise!) that vintage garment was designed with other vintage garments in mind.

None of this is to say that Holty should go out and get a pair of grandpa pants, like Fred Mertz*, but some medium-rise jeans might be a good idea.

*a picture of Fred Mertz from "I Love Lucy":

 

[Brettafett]

Ha, yes... these are just jackets at the end of day, we all know that.
Ive a great many other interests in life than flight jackets, as do we all... I'm sure

But this is a vintage jacket forum where w're able e discuss these things, seek advice, learn stuff and share our experiences with one another.
Lordy knows, not many I know outside the forum care about my 'bomber' jacket hobby... (Oh no, another one! Whats the difference??!!! WHAT DID YOU SAY THAT COST!!!!)

At the end of the day ... An off the peg leather jacket, that costs $1000 and doesn't fit right, and is non-returnable... is certainly not the holy grail.
I may not be paying for my jacket with my life, but Im certainly paying for it in hard-earned cash, through blood, sweat & tears lol
It bladdy-better-well fit right.

 

[Greg Gale]

I think both @Brettafett and @mulceber are right. If you don’t feel comfortable wearing it, that feeling won’t go away just because some (most) people think it fits you well.

On the other hand you did list all the most common traits of A-2 jackets as things you didn’t like. chances are, most other A-2s will have these ‘problems’ too. So maybe you should look for a different kind of jacket then?

 

[Flightengineer]

Short summary of the above:
if the jacket pleases the wearer, then this is the right jacket.
If the whole world says - wow, that's looks cool on you, but I myself will be uncomfortable or I don't like it for any reason - get rid of it immediately.

 

[bfd70]

@Holty what is your height/weight and what are the jackets measurements?

 

[mulceber]

On the other hand you did list all the most common traits of A-2 jackets as things you didn’t like. chances are, most other A-2s will have these ‘problems’ too. So maybe you should look for a different kind of jacket then?

Which really begs the question (and it's one Brett had brought up too, iirc), do you dislike the fit, or are just not used to this kind of fit? And that's something really only Holty can answer.

In any event, it might be worth trying for 3 or 4 days, while wearing some medium-rise pants, in order to find out. A few hours wear won't knock that much off the resale price, and it'll help you to figure out what you like and don't like in leather jackets.

 

[Thomas Koehle]

For me it would be the perfect fit - eeeehm - don't mean that particular jacket would fit me but i mean the look:

shape of the shoulders (which was a bit on the "boxy" side on early 5* A2) - lenght of body - the look when it is open as well as zipped up ...

Keep it - your groupies will rip her off your body and pull you in their bed

 

[Brettafett]

Is that what happens! Im wearing the wrong size jackets!

 

[Micawber]

Pah! Jackets, holy grail, does my bum look big in this? Can I wear my jacket tie my shoe laces and reach up to put the star on the top of the tree and still be able to breathe while doing both ...at the same time? Can I do the "I'm a little teapot short and stout, here's my handle here's my spout" routine without having my undergarments peeping out and letting the side down? Where can I get measured and have a bespoke A-2 cut, basted, fitted, basted, made up to ensure that all the above are made possible?

Nurse!! My pills quick!!!

All in submitted in clearly invisible text in my slightly demented That Was The Week That Was 1960's British tv show with a dash of early Monty Python-esque good humour. No offence intended to anyone be they animal, vegetable or mineral, fictitious, factual, dead or alive. No cats were kicked or otherwise harmed in the production of this post. Now off to be re-indoctrinated and worship at the altar of the perfectly fitting vintage jacket. But wait, what IS the perfect fit?

Hommmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[ButteMT61]

I can pretty much prove it's the design of the "A-2" that makes is more of a PITA. Just put on a G-1 or other gusseted jacket after an A-2. It's a dream in comparison.
I guess it takes more movement to fly a Naval Fighter than a B-17.
I've just come to grips with A-2's being somewhat of a less comfy option. Great jackets otherwise, just not the most comfy - on me at least...

 

[B-Man2]

I can pretty much prove it's the design of the "A-2" that makes is more of a PITA. Just put on a G-1 or other gusseted jacket after an A-2. It's a dream in comparison.
I guess it takes more movement to fly a Naval Fighter than a B-17.
I've just come to grips with A-2's being somewhat of a less comfy option. Great jackets otherwise, just not the most comfy - on me at least...

Butte
I saw this post and wanted to share with you that after all the years of wearing A2’s …. I agree with you . I also found a look alike jacket to an A2 that fits well and is very comfortable . The Wested Indy jacket has been a real surprise for me . The jacket fits well, looks good and is very comfortable . Its lambskin is soft and feels good but is durable .
Previously worn ones in great condition can be found for about $175-$200. . Just sharing .

 

[mulceber]

I guess it takes more movement to fly a Naval Fighter than a B-17.

I seem to recall the concern was more that downed pilots would have trouble swimming in a jacket without the gussets. For the AAF, that was less of a concern.

 

[bn1966]

I find the A-2 to be a very comfortable jacket for my build and G-1’s less so..go figure, I can’t work it out.
Did take a bit of experimenting though, my ELC RW 46 looked great on but made me feel like a sausage when zippered up. Went up to a 48 & got IMHO a lovely fit..doesn’t look baggy but I no longer feel like a sausage and can lightly layer with a fine sweater on top of a T Shirt. Can also reach things for folks off of supermarket shelves

 

[Micawber]

I'm going to swim against the flow [something I often find myself doing lol] and say that I find the simple A-2 to be an easy and comfortable thing to wear but with the proviso that they do generally require breaking and adapting to the idiosyncrasies of your personal shape. In order to accomplish this they need wearing - a lot, in all weathers and while engaged unphysical activities that involve stretching and, bending etc etc. I've had more than one original wearable G-1 and have never kept hold of any or had one as a go to jacket. Comfy from the get go yes but a little over engineered with too many nooks and crannies for my personal taste, I repeat, my personal taste.

 

[B-Man2]

I’ve always thought that the WWII “Trim Fit” look was a result of the layers of clothing the airman were wearing under the A2, as opposed to the jacket actually fitting very trimly on the guy. In most photos you see a pilot wearing a trim A2 but under it is layered t-shirt , long underwear, a woolen shirt with tie, and a sweater . Take all those clothes off of the guy and just put him in a T-shirt and you’ve got an A2 that is no longer trim fitting.
By going from a 46 to a 48 you probably are wearing the proper sized A2 .