My first A2

[Holty]

Hello everybody. I've decided on a Bill Kelso A2 and could use some advice. I am about to order either an Aero/Arco 16160 or an Aero/Arco 18775. I have taken the measurements as per instructions from BK. Pit to pit and shoulder seam to shoulder seam on a shirt that fits well (as I don't have an existing jacket to measure) and chest and around the shoulders measurements on me wearing a t-shirt.
Are there any other things I might need to consider that I might not be aware of such as collard stands etc and how they affect the fit and look? Also how do you decide on the length? Or if I'm ordering a reg fit jacket will the length be a standard length? I have attached photos of the jackets I mentioned above.

 

[mulceber]

In terms of fit, I would go with the standard BK measurements, unless you’re particularly lanky and always wear clothing in a long. You may find that when you first get it, the A-2 doesn’t feel like it fits right, but that’s because you aren’t used to how they fit. The A-2 takes some getting used to, but it’s worth it. That said, I think plenty of back and forth with Andy will help you decide whether standard measurements are right for you. He’s really good at size recommendations.

For contract, I’d say get whichever one you prefer. No wrong answers here. The 16160 is a lovely, pre-war jacket, and is probably a bit unsung. The 18775 is a classic war contract. The collar stand won’t make much of a difference in how the jacket feels. It might make the collar stand a little bit taller at first, but it’ll relax over time.

 

[Holty]

I'm a pretty average Medium most of the time. Yes I will talk to Andy again soon, sounds like he knows what he's doing. Thanks for your input by the way, appreciate it. Cheers.

 

[Brettafett]

Holty,
Do you have a denim jacket or something lie that?

Ive always found BK recommends a trim size. Be careful going with the 'recommended size'. They have always recommended a 40 for me, but I have 42 'longs' that are perfect.

As you say you're 'pretty average medium', then the most basic suggestion I can offer is, whatever your chest size, go up one size for a classic, yet wearable fit.
My chest is 40" for example, so a 42 is the best fit, for me.

I can wear a 40, but can't move comfortably. If you are a bit of a taller fella, then add 0.5 to 1 inch to body & sleeves
(I have found that over time and wear, the sleeves shorten by 0.5 to 1", creases form under the pits and at the elbows... something to consider...)

If you want, what's your chest measurement? height, weight and build? May be able to suggest better.

Regs the Aero/ Arco... Do you want russet or seal? If you are after russet, Id heartily suggest the 16160. Classic! And has a great heritage in Claire Chennault (his jacket is very famous and can still be seen in one of the museums).
That would be russet liberty with medium brown knit to go the 'authentic' route.
18775 is one of the later Aeros (hence no collar stand) and originals can be found in russet and seal (some were over-dyed). Either medium brown knit or the berry... Olive drab thread or medium brown. Any of those combos would be authentic.
I actually owned an original 18775 size 42 at one point, was seal with reddy undertones, faded berry knits and olive drab thread...

I wouldn't worry too much about collar stands. Either option above would be great, the patterns are very similar and would fit and feel almost identical...
The Aero/ Acro is a very sensible choice, pattern/ design-wise... you should find it comfortable to wear.

A couple if guys on the forum own a BK Acro, Jeremiah has one. Might be good to pm him and ask his opinion.

 

[B-Man2]

Also If you’re of medium or average build I would take Mulcebers advice and go with the standard sizing i.e. 40, 42, 44 etc. If you decide later on that the jacket doesn’t fit correctly or it just isn’t for you , it’s much easier to sell them on in standard sizing .

 

[mulceber]

Really good point about sizing up, Brett. I forgot to mention that because at this point I take it as a given for A-2 jackets: my Eastman, my BKs, and both my originals fit perfectly at one size above what my chest measurement would dictate.

 

[Holty]

Also If you’re of medium or average build I would take Mulcebers advice and go with the standard sizing i.e. 40, 42, 44 etc. If you decide later on that the jacket doesn’t fit correctly or it just isn’t for you , it’s much easier to sell them on in standard sizing .

Good point, hadn't thought about selling yet!

 

[mulceber]

Also, this is just my opinion, but my take is that, for a first jacket, try to do some research into the details of the originals and order the same color hide, lining, thread, etc. If you find yourself getting into A-2 jackets, you may soon find that you care a lot about your repros being accurate. For my first jacket from BK, I asked them to add an inside pocket, since I thought I'd use it. It isn't noticeable when I'm wearing it at all, but I still kinda wish I hadn't done that.

 

[Holty]

Holty,
Do you have a denim jacket or something lie that?

Ive always found BK recommends a trim size. Be careful going with the 'recommended size'. They have always recommended a 40 for me, but I have 42 'longs' that are perfect.

As you say you're 'pretty average medium', then the most basic suggestion I can offer is, whatever your chest size, go up one size for a classic, yet wearable fit.
My chest is 40" for example, so a 42 is the best fit, for me.

I can wear a 40, but can't move comfortably. If you are a bit of a taller fella, then add 0.5 to 1 inch to body & sleeves
(I have found that over time and wear, the sleeves shorten by 0.5 to 1", creases form under the pits and at the elbows... something to consider...)

If you want, what's your chest measurement? height, weight and build? May be able to suggest better.

Regs the Aero/ Arco... Do you want russet or seal? If you are after russet, Id heartily suggest the 16160. Classic! And has a great heritage in Claire Chennault (his jacket is very famous and can still be seen in one of the museums).
That would be russet liberty with medium brown knit to go the 'authentic' route.
18775 is one of the later Aeros (hence no collar stand) and originals can be found in russet and seal (some were over-dyed). Either medium brown knit or the berry... Olive drab thread or medium brown. Any of those combos would be authentic.
I actually owned an original 18775 size 42 at one point, was seal with reddy undertones, faded berry knits and olive drab thread...

I wouldn't worry too much about collar stands. Either option above would be great, the patterns are very similar and would fit and feel almost identical...
The Aero/ Acro is a very sensible choice, pattern/ design-wise... you should find it comfortable to wear.

A couple if guys on the forum own a BK Acro, Jeremiah has one. Might be good to pm him and ask his opinion.

I have another leather jacket but I'm not keen on the fit so I used a shirt as per BK advice. Glad you mentioned the sizing up; even though I prefer the slim fit to the relaxed I don't want the jacket to be too snug to move and I would like to wear a sweatshirt under it occasionally.
I am 5'8" and 12.5 stone/80 kg with a 40 inch chest and 49 inches around the shoulders. Using the shirt I got 18.5 inches shoulder seam to shoulder seam and 22 inches pit to pit.
I like the Russet and the Seal so it's going to be hard to choose!
Thanks for such a detailed reply it's really helpful. Helpful to Andy too I should think!

 

[Holty]

Also, this is just my opinion, but my take is that, for a first jacket, try to do some research into the details of the originals and order the same color hide, lining, thread, etc. If you find yourself getting into A-2 jackets, you may soon find that you care a lot about your repros being accurate. For my first jacket from BK, I asked them to add an inside pocket, since I thought I'd use it. It isn't noticeable when I'm wearing it at all, but I still kinda wish I hadn't done that.

Regarding hide colour, lining, thread, etc. I have narrowed it down to the two in my original message and they are as listed on the site. Would these be accurate? I have been assuming that they are. I was going order as listed and once I started looking at the drop down menus for the different options my head started to hurt.

 

[Greg Gale]

Definitely a size 42 regular, then. I'm 6ft tall and 77 kg, and wear a 42 BK with 0.5 inches added to the length.

 

[Holty]

Definitely a size 42 regular, then. I'm 6ft tall and 77 kg, and wear a 42 BK with 0.5 inches added to the length.

Thanks Greg, this making it a lot easier. Thanks everybody.

 

[mulceber]

Regarding hide colour, lining, thread, etc. I have narrowed it down to the two in my original message and they are as listed on the site. Would these be accurate? I have been assuming that they are. I was going order as listed and once I started looking at the drop down menus for the different options my head started to hurt.

Yep, the standard options that they offer in the drop-down menu on their site are accurate. They also often offer a little bit of info in the write-up for each jacket.

Yeah, if you're 5'8" and have a 40" chest, DEFINITELY go for a 42 regular. It'll be perfect, because you're about the height of an average airman back in WW2.

 

[Holty]

Yep, the standard options that they offer in the drop-down menu on their site are accurate. They also often offer a little bit of info in the write-up for each jacket.

Yeah, if you're 5'8" and have a 40" chest, DEFINITELY go for a 42 regular. It'll be perfect, because you're about the height of an average airman back in WW2.

Would the 42 still be a slim fit? I'll attach the image BK emailed to distinguish between the slim and relaxed fits. I like the slim fit look.

 

[Greg Gale]

Check my post here, and look for the RW fit pic:

Bill Kelso 27752 arrived!

As I'm typing this I'm wearing my new BK Rough Wear 27752, size 42. I think I found the holy grail. My Platon Dubow was very close to being one, but this is IT. I never owned an original A-2, so I can only compare it to other makers. I hope that's OK with you. The hide The leather is a bit...

www.vintageleatherjackets.org

That's a size 42 (22.5 pit to pit) on 77kg and 40" chest. Not slim, nor relaxed. If you're 80 kg, a 42 will not be baggy that's for sure. Keep in mind that A-2s are meant to have more room in the torso than modern jackets, otherwise they become extremely restrictive.

As for collars stand vs not, check the 2 fit pics in the above thread. The Dubow has no collar stand. The RW has one. It's more practical when sitting and looking around, but collar stands look kinda cool and elegant. It's up to your preference.

 

[Kermit3D]

I think Bill Kelso is a great choice, I really love my Dubow 27798.
The people here will be able to give you great advice on size choice. Brettafett in particular, he owned a lot of A-2 jackets from many different brands.

 

[Holty]

I think Bill Kelso is a great choice, I really love my Dubow 27798.
The people here will be able to give you great advice on size choice. Brettafett in particular, he owned a lot of A-2 jackets from many different brands.

I'm definitely in the right place! The Dubow 27798 is really nice too - so many to choose from!

 

[Holty]

Check my post here, and look for the RW fit pic:

Bill Kelso 27752 arrived!

As I'm typing this I'm wearing my new BK Rough Wear 27752, size 42. I think I found the holy grail. My Platon Dubow was very close to being one, but this is IT. I never owned an original A-2, so I can only compare it to other makers. I hope that's OK with you. The hide The leather is a bit...

www.vintageleatherjackets.org

That's a size 42 (22.5 pit to pit) on 77kg and 40" chest. Not slim, nor relaxed. If you're 80 kg, a 42 will not be baggy that's for sure. Keep in mind that A-2s are meant to have more room in the torso than modern jackets, otherwise they become extremely restrictive.

As for collars stand vs not, check the 2 fit pics in the above thread. The Dubow has no collar stand. The RW has one. It's more practical when sitting and looking around, but collar stands look kinda cool and elegant. It's up to your preference.

Thanks Greg, I saw them earlier and that RW looks a good fit.

 

[33-1729]

There’s a lot of great information in this thread. And I really wish I saw it before I went to purchase my first A-2. It would have saved me a lot of time.

Vintage A-2 jacket fit is quite different to what is used today. The actual chest size may be 0” to ~5” larger than the listed size, while a jacket today is usually 8” larger than the listed size. From the dimensions you supplied a 42” is it as others noted. It ought to fit like a glove and be as comfortable as a security blanket.

A collar stand is more like a dress shirt and the no-collar stand more like a knit. That may help decide between the 16160 (collar) versus the 18775 (no-collar).

Russet was used on a few rare examples of the 18775 with the distinct rusty-red knits of that contract (I’ve never seen one, not even a repro).

Me? I like prewar, collar, russet. At least I did before I found this forum. Now I have a prewar, collar, seal brown one too. Just saying...

 

[Holty]

There’s a lot of great information in this thread. And I really wish I saw it before I went to purchase my first A-2. It would have saved me a lot of time.

Vintage A-2 jacket fit is quite different to what is used today. The actual chest size may be 0” to ~5” larger than the listed size, while a jacket today is usually 8” larger than the listed size. From the dimensions you supplied a 42” is it as others noted. It ought to fit like a glove and be as comfortable as a security blanket.

A collar stand is more like a dress shirt and the no-collar stand more like a knit. That may help decide between the 16160 (collar) versus the 18775 (no-collar).

Russet was used on a few rare examples of the 18775 with the distinct rusty-red knits of that contract (I’ve never seen one, not even a repro).

Me? I like prewar, collar, russet. At least I did before I found this forum. Now I have a prewar, collar, seal brown one too. Just saying...

A lot of great information. Thanks for your contribution, it is making things much easier for me. I think I'm gonna end up with a 16160 and a 18775!