Goodwear in Stingray hide

[Chandler]

pix of your star?

I'll try to figger out the pix posting procedure one'a these days.

Chandler

 

[Chandler]

Yeah...
...But I think JC lets you know that it is steer...rather than have you expecting HH.
VB

And you have solid proof that ELC did this?

I'm no ELC proponent in any way, and have always liked John's stuff, but I'm not wont to go around making accusations based on rumor and conjecture.

Chandler

 

[Vcruiser]

Yeah...
...But I think JC lets you know that it is steer...rather than have you expecting HH.
VB

And you have solid proof that ELC did this?

I'm no ELC proponent in any way, and have always liked John's stuff, but I'm not wont to go around making accusations based on rumor and conjecture.

Chandler

You are accusing me of basing my statements on only rumor..or conjecture? Solid proof?...Hell..that depends on if you want to buy into certain excuses or not. Perhaps you may want to look in the Announcement topic on this forum...the 'Thank you' thread...and click on the first old VLJ yahoo forum...(join that forum)...then do a search ..and find the posts on this subject...then you can determine on your own what this contoversy was based on. Just so happens that a few of us old timers were around when the many posts on the subject appeared. There's probably even old posts and discussion about it on the classic20th forum as well.
Van

 

[Anonymous]

I never did find Gary Eastman's writen response on Hidegate.

 

[Chandler]

There's probably even old posts and discussion about it on the classic20th forum as well.

And there's solid proof in these posts? I mean c'mon, I'm just asking how you know for sure that a reputable company, that's been around for over 10 years, was really trying to pass off one thing for another.

I see dozens of posts on dozens of forums on dozens of subjects making claims and pointing fingers, but that proves about as much as "we couldn't say it on TV is it wasn't true."

I've heard some talk on this whole controversy from other jacket collectors, but just as here - no one has ever shown any proof that ELC was selling steerhide as horsehide. Besides that they may have been, I've yet to find any great difference of quality between horsehide and steerhide -- if that's where the scorn bubbles from. And I almost like my steer Star better than my horse Roughwear.

Chandler

 

[Vcruiser]

There's probably even old posts and discussion about it on the classic20th forum as well.

And there's solid proof in these posts? I mean c'mon, I'm just asking how you know for sure that a reputable company, that's been around for over 10 years, was really trying to pass off one thing for another.

I see dozens of posts on dozens of forums on dozens of subjects making claims and pointing fingers, but that proves about as much as "we couldn't say it on TV is it wasn't true."

I've heard some talk on this whole controversy from other jacket collectors, but just as here - no one has ever shown any proof that ELC was selling steerhide as horsehide. Besides that they may have been, I've yet to find any great difference of quality between horsehide and steerhide -- if that's where the scorn bubbles from. And I almost like my steer Star better than my horse Roughwear.

Chandler

Good enough for me Chandler.
Don't hafta prove anything to you as far as I'm concerned. If you don't want to make an effort to read old posts..that's fine too. Sounds like whatever is discussed there would make little difference to you anyhow. I could care less if you don't find any diff between HH and steer. However...IF...a customer expects to get a certain hide...then that's what they should get. I formed my opinion about it from what happened at the time...by just who was involved...and the aftermath. I don't appreciate your insinuation that I am one who goes around making accusations based on rumor and conjecture.
I mean c'mon...I will post my opinions..and how I judge certain situations whether it convinces you or not. Sounds like the scorn is bubbling from you.
VB

 

[airfrogusmc]

Yeah...
...But I think JC lets you know that it is steer...rather than have you expecting HH.
VB

And you have solid proof that ELC did this?

I'm no ELC proponent in any way, and have always liked John's stuff, but I'm not wont to go around making accusations based on rumor and conjecture.

Chandler

Its been a few years but I do think that Eastman said they did nothing wrong because the said hide not horsehide and steer was the hide of default. So unless you specifed when you ordered it was to be horse you got the hide of default. Anyway thats the way I remember it. I'm sure its in the old post like Van said.

 

[fedoralover]

pix of your star?

I'll try to figger out the pix posting procedure one'a these days.

Chandler

Chandler, if you register at this free pic hosting site.
http://photobucket.com/

You can then download pics from your computer to it and then from there you just copy and paste the link from the site in your posts and the pic will show up.

fedoralover

 

[zoomer]

That is, if you use the

tags.

 

[deeb7]

That is, if you use the

tags.

Actually, it's not necessary ... from Photobucket they're already applied, and good to go.

 

[JRaptor]

The Classic20th where Aero is the only jackets made... give me a break!

ELC never said that there RW 1401 was HH, just that it was a veg tanned hide... now they did say that the RW 27752 was veg tanned HH! And then there was the Mustang fiasco which was nothing other than a small run of very grainy HH used in a small run of 1401's!

BTW: Charles at HPA tagged it as mustang hide, Gary knew nothing of it!

 

[airfrogusmc]

Interesting because I have an older golden book that says russet hide for their 1401 and the way the entire thing is written could be VERY misleading in my opinion.

Hide of default steer....

So if you have a 1401 from that period it could be steer hide and you mighta tought you were getting horse...

 

[zoomer]

My 1401 (of the leather pictured upthread) could really be horse, cow, pig or aardvark and it'd still be one of my favorites. It's supple, drapey, fine-grained, I like the color and even the scent (a sort of faintly vinegary or acidy remnant of the tanning/dyeing process).

An aardvark. It is native to Africa, lives in holes in the ground and eats bugs.

 

[JRaptor]

Interesting because I have an older golden book that says russet hide for their 1401 and the way the entire thing is written could be VERY misleading in my opinion.

Hide of default steer....

So if you have a 1401 from that period it could be steer hide and you mighta tought you were getting horse...

Thats what I said... The Golden Book says just an aniline dyed russet hide and nothing about it being HH! However the 27752 does say HH.

 

[Swing]

Interesting because I have an older golden book that says russet hide for their 1401 and the way the entire thing is written could be VERY misleading in my opinion.

Hide of default steer....

So if you have a 1401 from that period it could be steer hide and you mighta tought you were getting horse...

Did ELC do anything technically wrong? No. Was it shitty business? IMO, yes. Was it something they did on purpose to mislead? I don't know, but it would have been much smarter to say, "You must state horse if you want horse". Did anyone wind up with a steer jacket who was expecting horse? Who knows?

I do know you didn't own one of these jacket Allen, so I don't know why you felt inclined to bring up this subject, again, seven years after the fact.

Jesus, still the same old bullshit. :roll:

~Swing

 

[airfrogusmc]

Interesting because I have an older golden book that says russet hide for their 1401 and the way the entire thing is written could be VERY misleading in my opinion.

Hide of default steer....

So if you have a 1401 from that period it could be steer hide and you mighta tought you were getting horse...

Did ELC do anything technically wrong? No. Was it shitty business? IMO, yes. Was it something they did on purpose to mislead? I don't know, but it would have been much smarter to say, "You must state horse if you want horse". Did anyone wind up with a steer jacket who was expecting horse? Who knows?

I do know you didn't own one of these jacket Allen, so I don't know why you felt inclined to bring up this subject, again, seven years after the fact.

Jesus, still the same old bullshit. :roll:

~Swing

AAHHH lil swingy get your panties in a bunch already this morn.

No I didn't own a 1401 but Paul had one of the suspect ones we's think and last time I looked didn't see you as an owner or moderator so till then I'll post what I want. I did own a 27752 which I never really liked.

I never said they did anything illegal. On page 59 of my golden book for the 1401 it clearly says russet hide not russet horse hide. So they're absolutely covered.

 

[Swing]

AAHHH lil swingy get your panties in a bunch already this morn.

No I didn't own a 1401 but Paul had one of the suspect ones we's think and last time I looked didn't see you as an owner or moderator so till then I'll post what I want. I did own a 27752 which I never really liked.

I never said they did anything illegal. On page 59 of my golden book for the 1401 it clearly says russet hide not russet horse hide. So they're absolutely covered.

No panties in a bunch, I'm not telling you what you can and can't post about, nor did I say you were accusing them of doing anything illegal.

Just wondering why you, someone who doesn't even own one of the jackets, is even bringing the subject up, seven years after the fact, in a thread that appears to have started out as a jab at John's jackets and the forum's current obsession with them :?: Can't pass up taking a shot at them? :roll:

~Swing

 

[Anonymous]

in a thread that appears to have started out as a jab at John's jackets and the forum's current obsession with them :?:

If you think that you're completely wrong.

 

[JRaptor]

Interesting because I have an older golden book that says russet hide for their 1401 and the way the entire thing is written could be VERY misleading in my opinion.

Hide of default steer....

So if you have a 1401 from that period it could be steer hide and you mighta tought you were getting horse...

Did ELC do anything technically wrong? No. Was it shitty business? IMO, yes. Was it something they did on purpose to mislead? I don't know, but it would have been much smarter to say, "You must state horse if you want horse". Did anyone wind up with a steer jacket who was expecting horse? Who knows?

I do know you didn't own one of these jacket Allen, so I don't know why you felt inclined to bring up this subject, again, seven years after the fact.

Jesus, still the same old bullshit. :roll:

~Swing

AAHHH lil swingy get your panties in a bunch already this morn.

No I didn't own a 1401 but Paul had one of the suspect ones we's think and last time I looked didn't see you as an owner or moderator so till then I'll post what I want. I did own a 27752 which I never really liked.

I never said they did anything illegal. On page 59 of my golden book for the 1401 it clearly says russet hide not russet horse hide. So they're absolutely covered.

Exactly right Allen, and I think it was more Charles's doing than Gary Eastman... Call Gary and ask him about Mustang hide or whatever anyone wants to call it and he will tell you he has never heard of it!

Anyway, none of the repro companies can't even hold JC's ****sack... :twisted:

 

[airfrogusmc]

AAHHH lil swingy get your panties in a bunch already this morn.

No I didn't own a 1401 but Paul had one of the suspect ones we's think and last time I looked didn't see you as an owner or moderator so till then I'll post what I want. I did own a 27752 which I never really liked.

I never said they did anything illegal. On page 59 of my golden book for the 1401 it clearly says russet hide not russet horse hide. So they're absolutely covered.

No panties in a bunch, I'm not telling you what you can and can't post about, nor did I say you were accusing them of doing anything illegal.

Just wondering why you, someone who doesn't even own one of the jackets, is even bringing the subject up, seven years after the fact, in a thread that appears to have started out as a jab at John's jackets and the forum's current obsession with them :?: Can't pass up taking a shot at them? :roll:

~Swing

AAAHHH poor lil swingy...PMS'n sweetheart? Why not comment. Allot folks weren't around when that happened. Kinda thought I'd do a little stroll down memory lane.