FIVESTAR LEATHER A2 JACKET

mulceber

Well-Known Member
I don’t think you need to be an expert. I’m definitely not one. When I see something that doesn’t look right I just start pouring over pictures of originals and try to figure out why. This is a hobby full of amateurs, with a handful of professionals in the mix. :)

Jacket looks good on you, btw, @Saint-ex.
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
The circular element of the sleeve may appear 'squared' unless the total measurement/diameter of the sleeve opening is reduced. The firmer stitching, including the epaulet itself, would create a rigid area.. that needs to be drawn down around the arm.

I think this pic shows it all really.. ;)

33ee074dc9eb4a21bb2b8d6532de0ce5.jpg
 

mulceber

Well-Known Member
The circular element of the sleeve may appear 'squared' unless the total measurement/diameter of the sleeve opening is reduced. The firmer stitching, including the epaulet itself, would create a rigid area.. that needs to be drawn down around the arm.

I think this pic shows it all really.. ;)

View attachment 45777
That’s brilliant, Couchy! I remember reading somewhere that the Bronco fit “like a suit jacket,” and a lot of pics of Broncos that I see have those squared shoulders. I wonder if that’s a detail particular to the Bronco contracts, and Shawn learned it on his early Bronco repro and started applying it to all his jackets.

Either way, I think you’ve solved it.
 
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ties70

Well-Known Member
Honestly, if you like the Bronco pattern, you should probably give the United Sheeplined a look: both companies were owned by Spiewak, and jackets made by them are easily confused for each other, as they have most of the same design features. The major difference is the placement of the epaulets (in front of the shoulder seam for Bronco, on top of it for USL).

Shawn gave me permission to post this one:
View attachment 45735
Jan,

I understand that Shawn made this jacket after he got a complete set of measurements from you? So, while this first prototype might reflect your jacket, it seems to differ from some of the characteristics that one would expect from a typical USL.

The obvious thing that strikes me are the pockets: If you take Mark Weinshenker's Acmedepot as a reference, the flaps look significantly longer...


So they are on the various jackets from JC...

A thing that doesn't relate to a special contract, but seems to be an issue with all FS jackets: I wish they would use slightly wider waistbands and sew them in more tightly... maybe that will come with the new batch of knitwear!

Despite that: I am absolutely amazed by the fact that @Shawn Ali pushes forward with so many new projects based on original jacket. Love the enthusiasm!

Ties
 

mulceber

Well-Known Member
Jan,

I understand that Shawn made this jacket after he got a complete set of measurements from you? So, while this first prototype might reflect your jacket, it seems to differ from some of the characteristics that one would expect from a typical USL.

The obvious thing that strikes me are the pockets: If you take Mark Weinshenker's Acmedepot as a reference, the flaps look significantly longer...

http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2images/un_pock.jpg
So they are on the various jackets from JC...
Good observation, Ties - my jacket's the same:
29262F8D-5CDE-4933-A240-E4FFE170DFD8.JPG


That's probably a change that should be made to the prototype before release.
 

Nickb123

Well-Known Member
Hi Shawn Ali I must commend you on attention to detail with this you will become a top tier seller .So many makers who are not , cut corners with the details . Many of our forum members have given you valuable direction advice . One thing that many customers who are serious about the type A-2 Jacket want horse or cow leather because of the way it ages .View attachment 10421

This is the pay off for hard wear ,(above picture is a reproduction ) .Do this and you will increase your order 10 fold ,you should have people wearing them to show the new and what will look like after one year ,and post it on your web site (big boost for your sales ) . I would purchase one for sure as I am not a fan of goat skin as it never ages like horse or cow leather . Forgive if I have offended you as it just struck me the cow is sacred in your part of the world . The real problem in the west is a big percentage of people have lost there jobs and and have been rehired at a lower wage ,but the price of repro A-2 jackets keep going up and up (and there is a waiting period to boot ), this is where your company can fill a niche . Concentrate on one maker then make another makers jacket . Most serious A-2 aficionados would want more than one makers type A-2 in their collection . I commend you how far you have come down this road and your willingness to listen from strangers to make your product what it should be . This is one of the most interesting posts on the VLJ at the moment with an exciting evolution we can follow by a maker with a passion ! thanks Shawn Ali .

BIP
That has to be the most realistic looking repro ever.
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
That’s brilliant, Couchy! I remember reading somewhere that the Bronco fit “like a suit jacket,” and a lot of pics of Broncos that I see have those squared shoulders. I wonder if that’s a detail particular to the Bronco contracts, and Shawn learned it on his early Bronco repro and started applying it to all his jackets.

Either way, I think you’ve solved it.
Not sure if that solved it, one possible explanation. My pattern making is limited to Western Action holsters two decades ago....

I just know the complications of trying to put something into a smaller hole.. ;)
 

JimO

Active Member
I think you might gain more headway if you explained at greater length what you're asking for. When we offer advice to Shawn, we have specific suggestions about how to accomplish it: "that pocket's a bit too tall - try shortening it by a centimeter," for example. Even when we have more difficult criticisms to address, such as the collar issue over in the M-445A thread, we try to figure out what specific detail of the pattern is causing the problem. Saying "the shoulders are too square" doesn't provide much guidance, even when you add in the bit about the angled sleeves. Now, if you were to investigate the cause of these square shoulders and provide detailed suggestions for exactly how to fix them (ideally with side-by-side pictures comparing his shoulder seams to an original), I think you would find Shawn very willing to listen to your advice.
Jan- How's this for a more detailed explanation?

FIVE STAR DONIGER:

Square shoulders; pattern is cut like a suit jacket
Doninger.jpg


Bunching up of material from the square shoulders when arms are raised
Doninger_raised.jpg


Top of sleeve is attached at an ANGLE to the shoulder line
Doniger_flat.jpg


FIVE STAR WERBER:

Square shoulders; pattern is cut like a suit jacket
Werber.jpg


Bunching up of material from the square shoulders when arms are raised
Werber_raised.jpg


Top of sleeve attached at an ANGLE to the shoulder line
Werber_flat.jpg


AVIREX GENERIC A-2:

Round shoulders
Aivrex.jpg


NO bunching up of material from the round shoulders when arms raised. Doesn't this look MUCH better and the fit more natural that the two Five Star patterns?
Avirex_raised.jpg


Top of sleeve is attached STRAIGHT AND INLINE with the shoulder line. The sleeve is attached like it's an extension of the shoulder line. There is NO way that the shoulders will look square or the material will bunch up when the arms are in any position, even if the shoulder measurement is smaller or larger.
Avirex_flat.jpg


As I had mentioned in my previous post, it's NOT a matter of cost, quality of materials & manufacturing, or the company that's making it. It IS all about getting the pattern right.

Which look & fit would YOU rather have?
 
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I just checked out Fivestar's website, and as far as I can see, all their A-2 contracts share the same size chart. So maybe the different contracts then share the same basic pattern as well, thus the same square shoulders?
 

Saint-ex

Well-Known Member
The Fivestar's website is out of date...

In fact first contract offered was Bronco, copy of a copy.
Doniger and Werber were based on this and adapter from pics and measurement to match contract specificity.

Since @Shawn Ali start to own originals and spending more time in developing pattern it change, but Website is not really representing it IMHO.
 
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The Fivestar's website is out of date...

In fact first contract offered was Bronco, copy of a copy.
Doniger and Werber were based on this and adapter from pics and measurement to match contract specificity.

Since @Shawn Ali start to own originals and spending more time in developing pattern it change, but Website is not really representing it IMHO.
That's good to know. Then I'd better wait choosing pattern until the size charts of the new jackets will be available.
 
From patterns to hides. Which one would you recommend for a seal brown 5* jacket- steerhide, veg. tanned goatskin or chrome tanned goatskin?
 

cleancut

Member
The Steerhide is very soft... has a lot more give to it and smells great. It’s already getting a nice look to it. I have a goat A1 and it’s great but I much prefer the Steer or horse. Just my 2 cents.
 
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