B-3 ended early...

[havocpaul]

Another example of a seller ending an eBay auction early, jacket had bids so hope he had a good excuse and not been approached to sell off-eBay.....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

 

[Roughwear]

I was watching this one as you don't see Werber B-3s in this size come up very often. Paul you may well be correct about the fate of the jacket.

 

[TwelveOClockHigh]

I too was watching this uncommon jacket. I know I am spitting into the wind; but I just don't waste my time on sellers that I suspect end early because they get an offer they can't refuse. If enough people stop reinforcing their behavior, then that might stop the “ended early” practice. I collect German cuckoo clocks from the mid to late 1800s. A woman from the Netherlands had a true collector’s item, a four foot Hunter style, the kind with the stag head, and hanging animals. She had sold many cuckoos and other antique art from the Black Forest. She ended the auction early and I emailed her to ask why. She told me she had gotten an offer from someone else to end early. When I told her that she was doing her reputation harm, she was astonished. And no longer ends early.

 

[havocpaul]

I agree, I have been banging on about this practice for years and of course it is against eBay rules and they can be kicked off but it seems unlike other auction houses where it can't happen during an auction, many buyers think they can treat eBay auctions with contempt and think themselves 'clever' to offer 'off-eBay'. This particular jacket had several bids so they would have to have been told a reason but of course eBay allow an item to end for several reasons (loss, damage, wrong description etc). It does do sellers harm in the long run, I have a mental list of several who are repeat offenders and won't bother watching or bidding on their items, this seller has been added! The flight jacket fraternity is not so big that somewhere down the line the possible culprit/buyer will raise his head and then let the 'bullets fly'!

 

[Roughwear]

I asked the seller what had happened with the auction and he said it was no longer for sale. He has chosen not to reply to my follow up email asking him why.

 

[joeson]

If you end early, you don't have to pay the high fees Ebay charges for high value items.I can understand the attraction.I had a jacket listed that I was offered £300 for.I refused to end early and it sold for £187.I hate it when an item suddenly dissappears but you can't blame sellers,they are simply trying to get the maximum amount for their item.Everyone knows Ebay is a joke,as far as the word 'auction' goes.
I guess what I am saying is,you know the 'rules',so adjust your strategy to incorporate them.

 

[havocpaul]

If eBay is a 'joke' then don't use it, but actually it is cheaper than using traditional auction houses after all. And as for the 'rules', ending early to sell 'off -ebay' is against such rules and is unfair to those that have bid on an item correctly. I am always amazed at eBay - bashing; if listed correctly then your item is likely to get the interest it deserves worldwide. I frequent militaria fairs where I see the same dealers with the same tired stock they were trying to flog the year before, that is much harder work than using eBay IMO.

 

[joeson]

If eBay is a 'joke' then don't use it, but actually it is cheaper than using traditional auction houses after all. And as for the 'rules', ending early to sell 'off -ebay' is against such rules and is unfair to those that have bid on an item correctly. I am always amazed at eBay - bashing; if listed correctly then your item is likely to get the interest it deserves worldwide. I frequent militaria fairs where I see the same dealers with the same tired stock they were trying to flog the year before, that is much harder work than using eBay IMO.

The reason I put the word rules in inverted commas was because sellers and buyers continually flout them.This is why I consider Ebay a joke.They have rules,yet do not enforce them,allowing items to be sold off site and descriptions to be wildly inaccurate.When they are alerted to these problems they are slow to act,if at all.They dominate the online auction market and consequently don'y feel any pressure to tidy up these issues.Obviously they have access to the communications that go on between seller and buyer,so why no action?

 

[TwelveOClockHigh]

"I guess what I am saying is, you know the 'rules',so adjust your strategy to incorporate them."

So how do you adjust? Normally if something is taken off ebay early it is merely annoying. But what if two B-3s or Irvins come up? I have been looking for a RAF Coastal Command jacket for quite some time. I had been bidding on a Battle of Britain Irvin Airchute when a wonderful example of a CC came up. I had to make a decision whether to continue my pursuit of the 1939 Irvin or abandon for the CC. So I did not pursue the '39 and went for the CC. To compound my efforts many people are not willing to ship to the USA. So my chances are even slimmer. Well you guessed it. The 1939 ended before the Coastal Command and then the seller "ended early." "It was for sale locally also."

So I wait for yet another CC and another Battle of Britain example that Andrew will put up for auction one day.
If the sellers are one timers then nothing can be done. But if they seller offers other jackets in the future I ignore their "auctions."

 

[dmar836]

"...but you can't blame sellers,they are simply trying to get the maximum amount for their item..."

Well, I CAN blame sellers for this. The world is full of people like this that are all about rules when they fall in their favor. When rules appear to favor others, they feel ripped off. An auction sale is a contract and listing an item is a risk that is controlled by rules that the seller agrees to. Bailing out when they think they can maximize profit in another way is no virtue at all! It's taking advantage of Ebay(the fact that they can't monitor every auction) and the rest of us willing to watch and bid. You might excuse it as no big deal but if they would do that, wouldn't they screw an individual as well? "Well that's different..." No it's not! Character is what you do when no one is watching or regulating you. In this case, thinking they are little fish and won't be caught so why not cheat. This behavior shows no character.
I have been emailed many times to close an auction early. I could never, with a clear conscience, do that. Such "scalpers" know the rules, are attempting to play dirty by undercutting those who play by the rules, and I ignore them simply out of principle.

If I agreed to sell one of you an Irvin for $xxx and another member cut in and offered me $xxx + $1, would it then be right for me to break our agreement? What about for an extra $100? Then would it be right? Apparently everything is relative anymore. I mean, have some principles.

Then again, I felt dirty writing a seller, after an auction closed with no bids, and agreeing to buy a jacket.

JMO,
Dave
KC

 

[asiamiles]

The bottom line is that eBay does allow sellers to end auctions early and one of the reasons one can give is that "the item is no longer for sale". I very rarely end an item early (there was a time when I would never do it), but with the way eBay is biased against sellers these days one cannot really blame anyone for doing so, even if it can be very annoying. Basically you have to look at it like this: I wouldn't have paid that much anyway so it doesn't really matter in the end or I'd have paid more than that so the seller lost out by ending it prematurely.

 

[joeson]

"...but you can't blame sellers,they are simply trying to get the maximum amount for their item..."

Well, I CAN blame sellers for this. The world is full of people like this that are all about rules when they fall in their favor. When rules appear to favor others, they feel ripped off. An auction sale is a contract and listing an item is a risk that is controlled by rules that the seller agrees to. Bailing out when they think they can maximize profit in another way is no virtue at all! It's taking advantage of Ebay(the fact that they can't monitor every auction) and the rest of us willing to watch and bid. You might excuse it as no big deal but if they would do that, wouldn't they screw an individual as well? "Well that's different..." No it's not! Character is what you do when no one is watching or regulating you. In this case, thinking they are little fish and won't be caught so why not cheat. This behavior shows no character.
I have been emailed many times to close an auction early. I could never, with a clear conscience, do that. Such "scalpers" know the rules, are attempting to play dirty by undercutting those who play by the rules, and I ignore them simply out of principle.

If I agreed to sell one of you an Irvin for $xxx and another member cut in and offered me $xxx + $1, would it then be right for me to break our agreement? What about for an extra $100? Then would it be right? Apparently everything is relative anymore. I mean, have some principles.

Then again, I felt dirty writing a seller, after an auction closed with no bids, and agreeing to buy a jacket.

JMO,
Dave
KC

I,too,have never ended a listing early.This has caused me to lose large amounts of money on a point of principle.Ebay does nothing to support this principle,despite the fact of me alerting them to these breaches of the rules.Therefore,I have decided that if the rules are not being enforced,I will cease to be bound by them.I am not prepared to stand on a soapbox shouting about principle ,whilst all around me items are being bought and sold freely off site.I would love to live in a world where everyone acted honourably,but I fear that this is not being realistic.Sometimes we have to read between the lines and interpret the 'rules' for ourselves.

 

[dmar836]

I understand the points made. Mine is only a rant: Just because it CAN be done and IS done doesn't mean it should be done. This is akin to the "hey, everyone else is doing it so...." mentality.

Ebay allows the option to end early but we can all agree this was not intended so sellers could opt out of fees and undercut all other bidders for a rogue offer. If you don't want to abide by the Ebay model then simply don't use it. Period. We can't justify this just because we don't want to give up the option to one day do it ourselves.

At risk of sounding hoity-toity, I remember studying Kant in an ethics class. I'm no intellectual but I liked his view (although all philosophies have complicated issues). It's basically to act in a way that would work well socially if everyone acted that way.

As far a Ebay goes, if we all did this end early thing, only the "cheaters" would be able to purchase jackets and Ebay, as an auction option, would cease to exist. It is obvious that this act cannot be condoned as if we all did it - it would fail to work. So why do we condone anyone doing it? If you think this is "okay" just because it CAN be and IS done without punishment then you are admitting you would do it as well if in your best interest. If it's fair for them to do why would you not compete at that level for your benefit? Would we? Just something to think about.

We live in a world of situational ethics. It's okay if in that particular situation it benefits you. This just isn't ethical the realm of Ebay.

Dave the philosopher
KC, USA

 

[John Lever]

The obvious advantage of selling outside ebay is that some of the Paypal chargeback issue are reduced.

 

[TwelveOClockHigh]

Has anybody heard of this thing called RESERVE PRICE!!! IF the minimum sale price is NOT reached, it does not sell. Calculate the ebay fees, and add it to the reserved price!! If someone like me, who is about as sharp as a bowling ball can figure this out.... But don't use the Nuremberg defense. Everybody else is doing it, so I am going to do it.
The next time you complain about too many rules and/or laws, it is to codify things that we know are right or wrong. What glues us together as societies??? Ethics.
No one is putting a gun to your head to put things on ebay. It is a choice. I realize that we are trying to maximize our return, but.

Sorry about the rant. High school teacher an all, and I am supposed to be showing my students that character counts. That there is this thing called the "Greater Good."

 

[deeb7]

Has anybody heard of this thing called RESERVE PRICE!!! IF the minimum sale price is NOT reached, it does not sell.

Yes, we've heard of it, and discussed it here on the forum ... you are right, usually it does not sell.

I'm not siding with the end it early crowd, my usual strategy was to start it low, and hope like hell.

 

[ausreenactor]

If you end early, you don't have to pay the high fees Ebay charges for high value items.I can understand the attraction.I had a jacket listed that I was offered £300 for.I refused to end early and it sold for £187.I hate it when an item suddenly dissappears but you can't blame sellers,they are simply trying to get the maximum amount for their item.Everyone knows Ebay is a joke,as far as the word 'auction' goes.
I guess what I am saying is,you know the 'rules',so adjust your strategy to incorporate them.

You can list a Buy It Now with offers. These clowns are cheapskates, happy to use the popularity of eBay but not pay the fees...It SHOULD be a reason to get suspended...sorry, but a ten year eBayer with 1151 feedback...I keep em in business. And yes I have lost out on occasion. I am selling a few cheaply now...and the exchange rate is not too flash either. But it is a hobby....

Couchy

 

[ausreenactor]

The obvious advantage of selling outside ebay is that some of the Paypal chargeback issue are reduced.

ANY item paid for with Paypal is prone to an item not received claim. Only the item not as described is negated...Buyers win everywhere..

 

[dmar836]

Couchy,
I've only been burned as buyer - before Paypal. Seller of $800 MBZ wheels made all sorts of excuses - "mother in hospital", "4 packages were all returned", "cut a tire while repacking then had to buy a brand new one(it was bald BTW and the wheels were trashed)". Some scammers use Ebay to "sell short" the items they will steal provided the theoretical item sells high enough. I was just glad to get anything after the 30 days passed. All the complaining and reporting won't get you a penny from a thief without Paypal or your CC in the middle holding your money.
I have thought about posting that I would use only registered mail so that one could not claim "no receipt." Although in the US, often anyone can sign. A friend even had a new $4000 bicycle delivered in front of her garage unattended. When she complained about it, "What if it had been stolen?" They read her name a signed recipient. The delivery guy forged her name and dropped it there unattended! There will always be a way to get burned. But I still don't think joining them is the right attitude.
I like to have Paypal as a middle man even though there are risks.
In this world we will never outsneak the sneaks - it's their lifestyle and productive members of society have to accept certain risks for not taking all of their time combating them. All the reason to have a "no tolerance" approach to what some see as such a little oversight on Ebay.
JMO,
Dave

 

[John Lever]

The obvious advantage of selling outside ebay is that some of the Paypal chargeback issue are reduced.

ANY item paid for with Paypal is prone to an item not received claim. Only the item not as described is negated...Buyers win everywhere..

I think this would only apply if you send someone money and tick the 'Goods' box on the form.
A simple request for cash has no specific link to any item.