AERO VS US Authentic RAF jacket

[nhdblfan]

Hi all,
new here first post,been reading all the great threads on jackets and makers,wonderfull forum and pleased I joined (recomended by a friend on Timepkeeper watch forum) !

I am not a big WW II jacket collector,but I see how it could get additive,having only a A2 purchased many years ago from Willis and Geiger but in the market for a sheepskin RAF or perhaps B3 jacket for could New England winters (the RAF one in the J L Powell catalog was the catalyst).

If I was on the other side of the pond I suspect I would go to ELC(as well as some of the finer gun shops Purdey,Holland and Holland,Boss -another addiction I have fine guns,that I can't afford!) and buy one there,however here in the states the picking seems slim.

I have narrowed it down to two,AERO,which is available through eBay and I see well liked here but has a 8 to 12 week wait.I also ran across similarly priced US Authentic jacket that don't see to be has we ll accepted but availble much quicker.
Is there truly a big differnece in quality and are there any other US makers that I shoudl consider.
Apologies for the long post and thanks in advance for the knowledgable advice.
Dave

 

[John Lever]

I think it is worth the wait to go for Aero or perhaps Eastman. Eastman are the accepted market leaders for authenticity on this jacket at the moment, though to some the dry flat finish is a retrograde step. The pattern and cut are spot on and waiting time should be only 4 weeks or so. With the weak GBP now is the time to buy from the UK.
Aero however have improved their patter recently, and they offer a softer shinier skin that some people prefer. There is also a Merino version in the works that I have been helping with.
There may be a prototype soon, with skins from the original tannery Eastman used to use.

 

[ausreenactor]

G'day...

As John wisely states....take the hit and pay for a better jacket. You will only do it AFTER you learn the expensive way, as you try to offload
something that no one else wants. My first Avirex showed me that...but it was a good wearer for crawling under houses and pushing roof tiles back.

Couchy

 

[nhdblfan]

Thank you both for the wise input,I am leaning towards the AERO but will re look at the ELC.Both the AERO and the US Authentic come out to the same price ($700 USD).The Eastman B3 comes out to 145 more + shipping.My concern is no US office to deal through and their measurments seem less specific then the ones at both AERO and US A.
The AERO redskin does look a bit shiny for me but I like that color.

Surprised the US A is not as well thought of as the pictures and discriptions "seem" to the untrained (me) pretty nice.I am happy I asked before I made a purchase.

Thank you both for the response.BTW love that SAA aussiscreenactor,I have a few in the collection here is a link to my favorite one ; http://www.hunt101.com/data/549/medium/ ... saa-ls.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/549/medium/ ... saa-rs.JPG

 

[Roughwear]

ELC make the most authentic repro Irvins and B-3s. If you need measurements contact them. They are very good at customer care. Yes, they are a little more expensive than Aero's offerings, but worth every penny IMO. You can buy direct from the ELC website or pick up one second hand on Ebay. John Lever has a superb ELC broken grain B-3 for sale at the moment.

 

[Tim P]

ELC all the way. Second hand is a good tactic too as they dont wear out they wear in.

 

[nhdblfan]

I checked back with AERO and they are bumping against Xmass deadline so I may be in a Jan/Feb delivery if I pulled the trigger now.
Where is this used/broken B3 and what size?

AERO will ship in 2 days,how bad are they? is it the quality of the skins/the sewing or the "orginality" with them?Really like the color and look of the that RAF one they have.Again I know nothing about them and way out of my lane.Talk guns or Rolex,stocks I can play but this is not my thing,just want something much nicer then the mall junk and different then every one else wears.

Which is longer a B3 or RAF?Are they both same weight/warmth?Mark @ AERO explained that the RAF is "tighter"


Thanks for all the addional info and excellent help!
you all are great !
Dave

 

[Tim P]

b3 is longer. the collar is massive mind you but with a pocket it is a moer practical jacket than the Irvin.
Please consider an AN J 4 or navy type sheepskin jacket which has altogether more practical features and still offers the look of a ww2 shearling jacket.

 

[Geir]

I have a Battle of Britain Irvin from Aero (44) and while the sleeves are long the jacket is quite tight (somehow it seems to have shrunk since I bought it) and quite short - it does not quite overlap my belt, but it still is one of my favourite jackets. I have two ELC Irvins; a 1944 and a 1942 pattern. These are nice jackets, very lightweight, comfortable, no breaking in is needed, but the sheepskin wool is short and straight and looks a bit like velour. I have two Aero B3s, one which I bought from John Lever which has turned out to be able to take any kind of abuse and one which I got them to make to measure and sadly this one has not seen too much use as it is too warm to wear on most winter days. You need temperatures below 10 degrees centigrade for it to be comfortable.
The jacket I usually grab on a winter morning before I plod through the snow for the 7 o'clock train is a What Price Glory Irvin.

 

[better duck]

Hi all, new here first post

Hi Dave, welcome to our forum! Hope you get the bug too!

(....) has a 8 to 12 week wait.I also ran across similarly priced US Authentic jacket that don't see to be has we ll accepted but availble much quicker.

Ah, but here you go wrong: what is 8 to 12 weeks, waiting for a top quality product, that you will savour and enjoy the rest of your earthly life? Some of us here have been waiting for many months at a stretch for a jacket! And out of necessity develloped a Zen attitude about the time waiting for it. We see it as part of the fun, an exercise in patience that will benefit us in many ways in our busy, always busy lives, where our patience is always sorely tested.
The solution is to just order the jacket and then look away: not wait for it, but just go on with your life. And then suddenly, one day, pronto, there's the USPS or DHL delivery guy!

On the other hand, when you go for instant thirteen-in-a-dozen- gratification, you will find out, most certainly if you keep dwelling here on this forum, that you got an inferior product (at least authenticity-wise, which seems to interest you), that you will want to get rid of again at some point; and then you order the top quality jacket, and will look at several months waiting anyway. So the moral of this lesson in jacketry is clear: go for broke!
(and another line comes to mind ending on "the moral of the story's clear: stay of the bourbon, stick to beer" - but that's another story (or song) altogether - it starts with the line: "The pretties girl I ever saw, was drinking bourbon through a straw.. Any of you gents know this song?

 

[Tim P]

"The pretties girl I ever saw, was drinking bourbon through a straw.. Any of you gents know this song?[/quote]

From my times at Nijmegen I reckon the entire Dutch Army knows it at least....

 

[Tim P]

The what price glory Irvin may well suit your needs perfectly. better than US authentic. The wait for a top end jacket will only take you a little way into the winter however and I stand by my Eastman claim. McCoys is an option but consider the risk of throwing bad money after good for a newly made one.
Best first to trawl this forum, establish which of the sheepskins offer what, work out which is most desirable to you then act. As Peter writes, it isnt a race and there is no real deadline. A league table may be useful. such as:

Cost
fit
pockets or not
thickness of fleece
comfort
colour

work out your preferences in order. maybe list them here and see whether we all agree on your prescribed pecking order of features.


etc etc

 

[John Lever]

As others have said, the RAF is shorter than the B-3, but the most practical jacket would be an Anj-4. It has pockets, has good waist length for warmth and most of all is a subtle design. There is no fleece showing on the cuffs and waist and so draws fewer comments like
' Where's your Spitfire ?'

 

[deeb7]

• The prettiest girl,
  I ever saw
  was drinking bourbon
  through a straw.
  
  I walked right up,
  said "How do you do"?
  She said "I'm fine,
  And how are you"?
  
  I placed my hand,
  upon her thigh,
  she said "Young man,
  you're way to high".
  
  I moved my hand
  up to her twat,
  she said "Young man,
  you're making me hot".
  
  I picked her up,
  I laid her down,
  her long blonde hair
  lay all around.
  
  I put it in,
  I pulled it out,
  it felt so good,
  I had to shout!
  
  The wedding was
  a formal one,
  her daddy had
  a white shotgun.
  
  And now I've got
  a mother-in-law
  and 14 kids,
  who call me Pa.

 

[Tim P]

As others have said, the RAF is shorter than the B-3, but the most practical jacket would be an Anj-4. It has pockets, has good waist length for warmth and most of all is a subtle design. There is no fleece showing on the cuffs and waist and so draws fewer comments like
' Where's your Spitfire ?'

In selecting the B-3, B-6 and Irvins that I have, there has been a need first and foremost for accuracy in a living history environment that had driven the choices. I need jackets that are fine for day to day wear but are accurate for all periods of ww2. I see the AN-J 4 as being less typical of 8th Air force crews so i have avoided it simply because you have to stop somewhere..
Practical sheepskins, if LH is not your primary concern, are the AN-J-4/ M445a, or for lighter ones..B-6 and pocketed D-1

 

[nhdblfan]

Wow, lots of great feedback and info.
I guess I wish I started this quest 3 months ago so I could take more time to do the proper research. I have now come to the conclusion that the AERO is out for this "winta",will probably revist them next summer and order something as they are so well reguarded here (That long half belt looks nice for instance).It gets cold here in NH pretty quick and I would like a new jacket I can use this winter,the wait for AERO is,according to another board running over 3 months).
I think the B3 will suit me better then the Irvin or the RAF I orginally was leaning towards as I want a longer jack,at least a good bit over belt line (I carry a sidarm concealed-IWB and need it covered).No buttons or snaps at sleeves (to avoid scratching watch)-I like the knit cuff on my A2 for instance
Tim suggestion of a list is a good one.

price (the 7-800 range seems to be able to put me in a nice jacket).
Quality (still not sure whats wrong with the US Auth,but will pass as I don't like their B3 look-the M-444 is nice thou)
Pockets-probably but not a deal breaker
Sheepskin -thick- we get many days well below 0 here and it will be usefull !
not real hung up on total authenticity-yet,just want something much nicer then the mall junk and JA Banks type availble.

I looked at the WPG site and suprised its so well liked here as its very inexpensive (only 350)is this same quality as say a US Auth or Gibson and Barnes?

again many thanks for all the good info,I am learning quite a bit,including a great tune....
Never did find that B3 that was for sale,saw the cut up one listed here-ouch !

 

[John Lever]

Wow, lots of great feedback and info.
I guess I wish I started this quest 3 months ago so I could take more time to do the proper research. I have now come to the conclusion that the AERO is out for this "winta",will probably revist them next summer and order something as they are so well reguarded here (That long half belt looks nice for instance).It gets cold here in NH pretty quick and I would like a new jacket I can use this winter,the wait for AERO is,according to another board running over 3 months).
I think the B3 will suit me better then the Irvin or the RAF I orginally was leaning towards as I want a longer jack,at least a good bit over belt line (I carry a sidarm concealed-IWB and need it covered).No buttons or snaps at sleeves (to avoid scratching watch)-I like the knit cuff on my A2 for instance
Tim suggestion of a list is a good one.

price (the 7-800 range seems to be able to put me in a nice jacket).
Quality (still not sure whats wrong with the US Auth,but will pass as I don't like their B3 look-the M-444 is nice thou)
Pockets-probably but not a deal breaker
Sheepskin -thick- we get many days well below 0 here and it will be usefull !
not real hung up on total authenticity-yet,just want something much nicer then the mall junk and JA Banks type availble.

I looked at the WPG site and suprised its so well liked here as its very inexpensive (only 350)is this same quality as say a US Auth or Gibson and Barnes?

again many thanks for all the good info,I am learning quite a bit,including a great tune....
Never did find that B3 that was for sale,saw the cut up one listed here-ouch !

My B-3 is here, it ends tonight.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :MESELX:IT

 

[nhdblfan]

Hi John,
and thanks for the link to the jacket,its a bit to large for me thou.I do think if ELC had a US office I might consider them but 1/3 more $ and no recourse except shipping it back for any adjustments rules them out.
AERO is also out as the 3 (or more) month wait,will revist them next summer for another one thou.

Not sure I like the US Authentic two tone B3,may see if they do it in other style.
How about Gibson and Barnes?
Has anyone here ever bought or a US Auth?
thanks for all the great info,
Dave

 

[Tim P]

We have all bought US Authentic I reckon at some point. You will likely sell it on eventually.

 

[nhdblfan]

We have all bought US Authentic I reckon at some point. You will likely sell it on eventually.

interesting, why,is that it falls apart? or the quality of the sheepskin? or just its not a "perfect" reproduction ?

I know my Willis and Geiger is not the best A2 but it has been fine for me for many years,if I where to buy another I might go with a GW after what I know now but would not sell it to buy another as the quality I feel is good and its still looks great.Don't get me wrong I sell and buy shotguns, and Rolex's while moving up the "ladder" of knowledge about them and a better financial ability so I understand the "trade up" senario.