WW2 leather colour/finishes

[B-Man2]

Jeremiah thank you finally makes sense to me, I kinda understand why some original’s look so “dull/flat”
Be good to see some more examples posted up of originals on here as they don’t seem to be posted about so much

There’s a thread in this section titled Vintage jackets farther down that shows some photos of original jackets . If you haven’t already seen it check it out.
Cheers

 

[Kennyz]

So really, jackets from Lost Worlds, US Authentic, etc, are more authentic to the finish on originals then those of the more high-end makers.

 

[33-1729]

So really, jackets from Lost Worlds, US Authentic, etc, are more authentic to the finish on originals then those of the more high-end makers.

To follow-up on Jeremiah’s excellent comment there is the aniline dye used on all the leather [drum dyed] and then a very small amount of protective pigment finish would be used (aka semi-aniline) all the way up to a lot of pigment finish could be used (aka pigment finished). More pigment would be needed to ensure a uniform color on poor quality leather, so I would expect jackets to be mostly semi-aniline as made (very little pigment finish on fresh unused leather) while used refinished ones would always be consider pigment finished with more pigment required to cover damage/scars/spots/etc. from use. So I think my horsehide semi-aniline Eastman 33-1729 is spot on.

Edit - From the horsehide spec the quality requirement was “uniform color free from obvious imperfections, ie, holes, scratches, cockle or poor grain” while from the cowhide spec “holes, healed grain scratches, scars, small brands and grub holes are permissible”. So most likely semi-aniline for high quality horsehide, but cowhide may go from semi-aniline to a heavier pigment finish depending upon the varying leather quality. A damaged/used refurbished jacket would always be with the heavier "pigment" finish, yes?

 

[Blueknight54]

Personally I don’t want my jacket to look 75+ years old after a few months of honest wear. My five star is chrome tanned semi aniline dyed. It’s a uniform dull matte russet brown. But I can see the first hints of light brown coming through on high wear areas like the wind flap/collar ends. It’s pretty stiff still too. My SMW A-2 on the other hand I’m not exactly sure about. It’s turning darker in spots but no light color is showing up on the high wear areas. In fact it’s turning very dark brownish black. The leather looks semi glossy. So what does that mean? The leather on it is buttery soft. Which is closer to an original jacket? Both are goat.

 

[stanier]

Unfortunately my shallow boredom threshold doesn’t allow me to read the minutiae of all these leather posts. However, I’m grateful for them, even though from the gist I can get I’m left feeling a chrome tanned, pigment dyed perfect accurate reproduction would look like crap for at least several decades!

 

[33-1729]

Personally I don’t want my jacket to look 75+ years old after a few months of honest wear. My five star is chrome tanned semi aniline dyed. It’s a uniform dull matte russet brown. But I can see the first hints of light brown coming through on high wear areas like the wind flap/collar ends. It’s pretty stiff still too. My SMW A-2 on the other hand I’m not exactly sure about. It’s turning darker in spots but no light color is showing up on the high wear areas. In fact it’s turning very dark brownish black. The leather looks semi glossy. So what does that mean? The leather on it is buttery soft. Which is closer to an original jacket? Both are goat.

I suspect the vast majority of original horsehide and goatskin A-2 jackets were chrome tanned semi-aniline finished as the hides had to have no obvious imperfections, while cowhide could vary from chrome tanned semi-aniline (aka light pigmented finish) to a heavier pigmented finish depending upon the varying hide quality permitted and the amount of pigment needed to ensure uniform color. Current leather pigments may contain ingredients, like acrylics, that weren’t commercially available during WWII. That may be a bigger color aging factor than veg vs chrome tanning.

 

[stanier]

Are there any examples of mint unissued original A-2’s in collections that have been kept in sympathetic conditions so we can see what they actually looked like (including the leather and all the components) when new? Surely somewhere there’s one or two?...

 

[Southoftheborder]

To follow-up on Jeremiah’s excellent comment there is the aniline dye used on all the leather [drum dyed] and then a very small amount of protective pigment finish would be used (aka semi-aniline) all the way up to a lot of pigment finish could be used (aka pigment finished). More pigment would be needed to ensure a uniform color on poor quality leather, so I would expect jackets to be mostly semi-aniline as made (very little pigment finish on fresh unused leather) while used refinished ones would always be consider pigment finished with more pigment required to cover damage/scars/spots/etc. from use. So I think my horsehide semi-aniline Eastman 33-1729 is spot on.

Edit - From the horsehide spec the quality requirement was “uniform color free from obvious imperfections, ie, holes, scratches, cockle or poor grain” while from the cowhide spec “holes, healed grain scratches, scars, small brands and grub holes are permissible”. So most likely semi-aniline for high quality horsehide, but cowhide may go from semi-aniline to a heavier pigment finish depending upon the varying leather quality. A damaged/used refurbished jacket would always be with the heavier "pigment" finish, yes?

We know that used and reissued jackets were rather crudely re dyed a dark brown colour.

 

[Southoftheborder]

Are there any examples of mint unissued original A-2’s in collections that have been kept in sympathetic conditions so we can see what they actually looked like (including the leather and all the components) when new? Surely somewhere there’s one or two?...

https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...-2-44-aero-collection-2013.23427/#post-250444

This is the jacket which inspired the thread I think. The really nice condition ones I've seen including when they were forty years younger were obviously pigment finished.

 

[2BM2K]

Are there any examples of mint unissued original A-2’s in collections that have been kept in sympathetic conditions so we can see what they actually looked like (including the leather and all the components) when new? Surely somewhere there’s one or two?...

There is this Dubow which has minimal wear;

Original Dubow 1755 as new (almost)

A few photo's to replace Photobucket links.

www.vintageleatherjackets.org

 

[blackrat2]

Yes both are great jackets for sure, very uniform colouring but there are lots that look more mottled in effect

 

[ausreenactor]

For the high-end makers, who the heck is going to pay good money for leather essentially painted dog-poop brown.

Dog poop brown. Have never had them described like that. But you hit the nail on the head. Both my Bronco and the ELC Monarch 'are the shit' though.

 

[Nickb123]

Recent GW, veg tanned/pigment:

 

[ausreenactor]

Miroslav just posted this on FB. Have hit him up for the contract/maker...

 

[Skyhawk]

The Horsehide and Capeskin hides we use at Headwind on the military jackets are chrome tanned, drum dyed, and pigment finished. I think that the results look very authenticitic. Some of our other hides are semi aniline and full aniline, finishes but those are used mainly on the Moto / civilian jackets.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

This is my Dimond Dave Aero, steer hide, chrome tanned, semi-aniline finish, the dye penetrates right through the leather.

 

[2BM2K]

The Horsehide and Capeskin hides we use at Headwind on the military jackets are chrome tanned, drum dyed, and pigment finished. I think that the results look very authentic.

Some photo's of leather samples, showing both sides, would be nice to see.

 

[Skyhawk]

Some photo's of leather samples, showing both sides, would be nice to see.

Here we go. Got some deep drum dying going on:

 

[DiamondDave]

Gents,

What’s funny is that the makers were trying to get the Army to agree to using cowhide. In one letter that I have seen somewhere, addressed to the AAF Material Cmd, the makers seem to discuss knowing cow is a bit more expensive, but better in the long run. So this leads me to believe that opposite to today, horse was the cheaper and less rare leather at the time.

DD

 

[mulceber]

That’s been my impression as well: America’s countryside was only recently mechanized, and so a lot of old farm horses were no longer needed, creating a horsehide surplus.