a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Johnny / emblemhunter asked me to post this for all to see, here you are, I'm sure he'll comment soon
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Unofficial 74th FS Insignia
- Thread starter a2jacketpatches
- Start date
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
Hello all , and thanks "A2J" for posting the image for me, I drew this up via a very poor photo of an "original" patch, the details were clear in most areas but not all , but I wanted to get it posted to see if any of the forum members have ever seen this one and hopefully in a much clearer image form ????????????????????????
I hope someone can assist on this one so I can redraw and colorise it to correct design etc , thanks and awaiting replies !!!!!!!!!!!
Johnny
P.S. I can make out the colors in the image I used , but would like to see another color image if at all possible of an original .
I hope someone can assist on this one so I can redraw and colorise it to correct design etc , thanks and awaiting replies !!!!!!!!!!!
Johnny
P.S. I can make out the colors in the image I used , but would like to see another color image if at all possible of an original .
shedonwanna
Active Member
I first thought it was Johnny's contribution to a VLJ forum patch. Is it Vietnam era air cavalry design?
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
No, this is a WW2 era design of the 74th Fighter squadron that I'm trying to find a good clear color photo or reference to a line drawing of it with colors properly noted, I was told that it is actually supposed to be a "Gorilla" riding the horse.......................
TankBuster
Active Member
Ask and you shall receive. One of the rarest patches out there!
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Wow! This is great news and supports my theory that the 23rd FG insignia is just that, the 23rd FG.
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
Wowzer , Much Much thanks Tankbuster !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is AWESOME and just what I was trying to find , Yahoooooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Johnny/EMBLEMHUNTER
This is AWESOME and just what I was trying to find , Yahoooooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Johnny/EMBLEMHUNTER
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
TankBuster said:Ask and you shall receive. One of the rarest patches out there!
Any info come with these images? For this to be unofficial makes sense as to why it's so rare and a good reason for members of the squadron to wear the official Group patch in it's place. What doesn't make sense is for the Group patch to be the Squadron patch as well.
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
anybody have a loose 8.5k to piss out? i mean invest. checkout item # 310972766037 on greedbay. look at all of the pix.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
goneSilver Surfer said:
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
duh, thats 310972766037 still there.
TankBuster
Active Member
I'll make it easy. Here is the link.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/310972766037?ss ... 1423.l2649
As for price, I think it's high. However, the attributed 23rd FG I used to own, I ended up selling for well over 10K. There was another on ebay about 4 years ago that fetched $11,500. They seem to be in a class all their own. My guess is someone will bite not far from where
it is right now.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/310972766037?ss ... 1423.l2649
As for price, I think it's high. However, the attributed 23rd FG I used to own, I ended up selling for well over 10K. There was another on ebay about 4 years ago that fetched $11,500. They seem to be in a class all their own. My guess is someone will bite not far from where
it is right now.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
TankBuster said:
If the 23rd is worth that much and an actual 74th FS, why is it still available? Perhaps nobody realizes the significance of this patch. So rare that nobody knows what it is, even the seller calls it unknown. In my opinion, this changes a lot of recorded history concerning the alleged dual purpose (23rd FG & 74th FS) Shield, tiger, lightning insignia. I have always questioned that, and now it seems that maybe everyone else should as well.
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
interesting, very interesting. this not the first time that i have heard about 1st patch, second patch, regulation patch, etc. not to mention variations of all of the above. it would seem that by all accounts that the aac, and early aaf when over seas was a pretty free wheeling organization with regard to their gear.
TankBuster
Active Member
a2jacketpatches said:
I meant to say A-2 jacket. As for why it's still available, that's a fair question. I suspect the missing label in the A-2 jacket and the poor condition of the 23rd FG patch have kept the price on this one down. I suspect that unofficial 74th patch has to be worth about $1,000 on its own though.
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
I think someone has gotten the facts mixed up on the 23rd "Flying Tiger" "Group" emblem , I believe it is and always has been the "Group" design , most likely someone of the 23rd was with the 74th "Squadron" and just doesn't remember the rules of "shield" shape patch "Group" , Round shaped patch "Squadron" .........................a2jacketpatches said:TankBuster said:Ask and you shall receive. One of the rarest patches out there!
Any info come with these images? For this to be unofficial makes sense as to why it's so rare and a good reason for members of the squadron to wear the official Group patch in it's place. What doesn't make sense is for the Group patch to be the Squadron patch as well.
That or the 23rd "Group" emblem was dropped out of the Lineage" circulation and picked up later by the 74th as "Their" emblem .......
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
EMBLEMHUNTER said:I think someone has gotten the facts mixed up on the 23rd "Flying Tiger" "Group" emblem , I believe it is and always has been the "Group" design , most likely someone of the 23rd was with the 74th "Squadron" and just doesn't remember the rules of "shield" shape patch "Group" , Round shaped patch "Squadron" .........................a2jacketpatches said:TankBuster said:Ask and you shall receive. One of the rarest patches out there!
Any info come with these images? For this to be unofficial makes sense as to why it's so rare and a good reason for members of the squadron to wear the official Group patch in it's place. What doesn't make sense is for the Group patch to be the Squadron patch as well.
That or the 23rd "Group" emblem was dropped out of the Lineage" circulation and picked up later by the 74th as "Their" emblem .......
Gotta hand it to you here Johnny, I always questioned the 23rd being the 74th. just didn't make sense. before you started this search for the true unofficial 74th finally comes to light, I was convinced they wore a modified version of the CATF as photographic evidence appears to have several members doing so. It looks as if the back half of the CATF is missing on some. That and the fact that the 74th did use a modified version in later years led me to believe this was much more probable than the documented Shield, lightning, and tiger 74th emblem. As we know, books are just dead wrong on several accounts. And I'm sure that many FT buffs will maintain the shield being the official Squadron patch. I have more faith in this patch being the rare bird and the shield being worn just because of that, same goes for the CATF now.
Great thread, ok jacket, interesting patch.
For some years the existence of a 74th patch along these design lines has been talked about. Good to see it, if that's what it is.
I think all the confusion exists because of the overlapping and very short time-lines between all these units - AVG; CATF; 23rd.
I've never seen any photographic evidence of 74th wearing this man-gorilla-horse patch, whereas I have seen a few photos of 74th guys wearing the CATF patch and many more of them wearing the 23rd group (sqn adopted) patch in its various forms. Later in the war, all the 74th pics I've seen show men wearing the widely recognized 23rd patch (as on this ebay A-2), or something loosely based upon it.
I guess this gorilla-horse patch was designed but never taken on. Perhaps 74th members already had 23rd patches on their jackets when this gorilla-horse patch was made available, so they never bothered using it. So many of the 74th wore 23rd insignia that over the course of a couple of years it became de facto 'theirs', and the groups. But I guess at least one guy picked one up, packed it away and took it back stateside. That is, of course, if this gorilla-man-horse patch IS a 74th patch? It could also be another unit altogether that the owner of the jacket picked up. There's so much misinformation out there that I'm certainly not jumping to any conclusions one way or another.
As for the jacket: nice piece. it has got wet. collar is flaky and there's a horrible hole/rot in the forearm. anyway, nice piece for display. Half price I might look again... Despite the rarity of the gorilla-man-horse patch it probably suffers from being too rare. Ironically, if nobody has seen one, and there's no photographic evidence of it being used, then I guess it will forever be considered a one off prototype.
Things were moving too quickly in the field and the insignia designers back home never caught up with the 74th.
Disney apparently, allegedly came up with this design for the 74. Also never seen worn:
For some years the existence of a 74th patch along these design lines has been talked about. Good to see it, if that's what it is.
I think all the confusion exists because of the overlapping and very short time-lines between all these units - AVG; CATF; 23rd.
I've never seen any photographic evidence of 74th wearing this man-gorilla-horse patch, whereas I have seen a few photos of 74th guys wearing the CATF patch and many more of them wearing the 23rd group (sqn adopted) patch in its various forms. Later in the war, all the 74th pics I've seen show men wearing the widely recognized 23rd patch (as on this ebay A-2), or something loosely based upon it.
I guess this gorilla-horse patch was designed but never taken on. Perhaps 74th members already had 23rd patches on their jackets when this gorilla-horse patch was made available, so they never bothered using it. So many of the 74th wore 23rd insignia that over the course of a couple of years it became de facto 'theirs', and the groups. But I guess at least one guy picked one up, packed it away and took it back stateside. That is, of course, if this gorilla-man-horse patch IS a 74th patch? It could also be another unit altogether that the owner of the jacket picked up. There's so much misinformation out there that I'm certainly not jumping to any conclusions one way or another.
As for the jacket: nice piece. it has got wet. collar is flaky and there's a horrible hole/rot in the forearm. anyway, nice piece for display. Half price I might look again... Despite the rarity of the gorilla-man-horse patch it probably suffers from being too rare. Ironically, if nobody has seen one, and there's no photographic evidence of it being used, then I guess it will forever be considered a one off prototype.
Things were moving too quickly in the field and the insignia designers back home never caught up with the 74th.
Disney apparently, allegedly came up with this design for the 74. Also never seen worn:
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Yep, I totally agree, can't say anything for sure. But I'd bet my left one that the CATF and the 23rd FG were worn by the 74th but not as their Squadron Patch.
