Reproduction RAF flying clothing, a bonus or a curse ?

[Peter Graham]

Interesting subject. I think repros in museums is bad form. If you don't have an original, don't display it. It's a bit like in a war movie when you're totally enthralled and suddenly a Patton tank appears with German markings. Totally ruins it. Last year I was in a museum in Arromanches, Normandy, and I spotted a representation of a US ferry pilot wearing a 60's G-1. The paperclip zipper was the dead giveaway. It's not a big deal but if they have got this wrong, what else have they got wrong that I didn't recognize ? As far as passing stuff off as original at militaria fairs etc, the nose is a good indicator. A vintage smell can not be easily faked !

 

[Lebensgefahr]

FtrPlt

You are right when you say that the problem occurs further downstream but I still don`t see why for example that the inside of a repro 32 pattern Mae West needs to be rubberised, no one sees it and to my mind it just makes it that much easier for fakers.
While as you say most repro items wouldn`t fool most people the problem occurs when the item in question is a rare high value item which comparatively few people have handled, like a 32 pattern Mae West or to a lesser degree a D type oxygen mask. Once somebody has really gone to work on a 32 pattern, unless you know exactly what you are looking for it is very easy to get caught out and people frequently do. With items like this you really need to have handled a good few to know exactly what to look for. While as you correctly say, books and other forms of quality information have become more widely available, in my opinion there is still no substitute for hands on experience.
Forgetting items with fake histories, D type oxygen masks and 32 pattern Mae Wests are probably the most faked items in the RAF collecting world. As I mentioned in another thread there was a discussion on another forum about whether a particular 32 pattern Mae West was genuine or not with opinion divided fairly evenly but with no one being able to give definitive reasons either for or against, so my point being that even with all the information available even a largish group of people couldn`t make up their minds. If someone had paid a lot of money for it they would have been very disappointed because it was a Canadian one that had been messed around with. Also if one never knows if the kit in museums is genuine or not then how is anyone supposed to learn ?
As an example, I bought something online off a bloke a few years ago and he mentioned that he had a mint D type oxygen mask for sale which I said I would be interested in buying so he sent me pictures and it was a repro which he had paid £900 for. The good news is that he got his money back from the bloke he bought it off, but I wonder how many people would have been that lucky ?

Just my five penneth though

 

[FtrPlt]

Hi Lebensgefahr,
To your comment, "I still don`t see why for example that the inside of a repro 32 pattern Mae West needs to be rubberised, no one sees it and to my mind it just makes it that much easier for fakers."

One need look no further than this forum to see the answer -- it's the level of detail/authenticity buyers are looking for.

GW will produce an Aero contract complete with a wartime Aero label. So, in essence, we move even closer to the perfect copy. We celebrate this and the fact that it raises the bar to an even higher level.

Yet, on the other hand, we express concern that collectors of other items are taking accuracy too far?

I find it troubling that some are quite willing to impose/demand restrictions on others that they would never tolerate being placed on themselves.

Maybe GW jackets should have "repro" punched through the leather on the underside of the collar? Somehow I don't expect there would be many people in favor. Even if it didn't show, the wearer would know it was there and that would spoil the fantasy. And maintaining the fantasy is really what all this is about.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Being a picker and repro manufacturer, I showed a fellow mil picker my Reproduction Ebay patches when he asked what I did other than picking militaria. I was happy to hear a him say "The only problem with your stuff is that it will be mistaken for the real thing" Well anyone with the slightest knowledge of theater made patches would question my product being passed off as authentic period original. I told him so, and added that "yes, the guys out for a quick buck just to buy and flip probably would be fooled" This is exactly what this guy does, buys up anything and everything without the slightest real interest just to make a buck.

Chances are that my stuff will not be used this way because it is pretty well known and advertised widely as reproduction. So I'm thinking it's even easier for the dedicated collector to spot reproduction factory produced items like A2's, Mae West, etc. My point is that the people out there not willing or interested enough to develop the instincts deserve this little test of knowledge. Mentioned earlier in this post, smell, one of the main common sense factors in determining age. Where did it come from? How much is it? If it smells musty out of a basement for 2 bucks it's good.

Over the weekend I visited Orange California where there's four blocks of antique stores. This military dealer had lot's of German stuff and his U.S. helmets I could tell were put together. When I showed no interest in them and mentioned wings and Squadron patches he was out the door and back in 5 minutes with some of those England made hand painted patches from the 80's. We were just discussing them recently here. He was BS when I told him they were repros and darted off just as quick to put them back in his car. He probably got burned and refuses to acknowledge it. He will no doubt try to pass them off again to an unsuspecting prospect. The guy that does eventually buy them as originals should have spent his money on books and a little time here.