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Price increase at Eastman Leather

stanier

Well-Known Member
No disrespect to JC and other manufacturers. It may sound like an investment but at the end of the day they are reproductions. These higher end new repros are sold the same price as wearable original jackets in good condition. The irony is new repros need to be broken into to make them look like old WW2 ones and when they reach that condition they are usually worth no more than 50% of when they were new based on ebay price. They may come a point or I believe has happen already that it make no sense paying over $1k for a repro as long as wearable original WW2 examples can be had for those price. The only reason why anyone would pay those prices is for larger or unique sizes that are difficult to find with originals.
Whilst I understand the point, it assumes that everyone would opt for an original out of choice and certainly that’s not the case. In my situation I would be very unlikely to find an original I would want to own. I have no interest in a jacket that looks 80 years old. I want it to look contemporary of its time, and I’m not interested in worn linings, knits, missing labels and leather that looks that age. I’m also not interested in potential funny smells or other hygiene issues, that may or may not exist.

So I would have a high end repro any day.

However, to the point of buying a repro and keeping it 10 years for investment there is the consideration of repro fashion for want of a better term I think. For instance, for a while a trim fit is preferred, then looser, or the preference is for more grain then less, or a particular repro brand for the minutest of real or date I say imaginary reasons. The jacket speculator would need to think wisely I think....
 

taikonaut

Active Member
Whilst I understand the point, it assumes that everyone would opt for an original out of choice and certainly that’s not the case. In my situation I would be very unlikely to find an original I would want to own. I have no interest in a jacket that looks 80 years old. I want it to look contemporary of its time, and I’m not interested in worn linings, knits, missing labels and leather that looks that age. I’m also not interested in potential funny smells or other hygiene issues, that may or may not exist.

So I would have a high end repro any day.
Surely if you want something contemporary and spanking new then any new jacket will do without paying a premium for one that are designed to break in easily to look old sooner.
New jacket are not vintage or in your case not even vintage looking but its your preference.

I like jackets that looks good with age.
 
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stanier

Well-Known Member
Surely if you want something contemporary and spanking new then any new jacket will do without paying a premium for one that are designed to break in easily to look old sooner.
New jacket are not vintage or in your case not even vintage looking but its your preference.

I like jackets that looks good with age.
My apologies, I think I have confused things. I want an A-2, but I want it to look like an A-2 made in say 1941 and its now 1942 and it hasn't had a mega hard life. What I don't want is an A-2 to look like its made in 1941 but its now 2019.

So, my chances of finding an original I'd be interested in are extremely small.

Each to their own.
 

taikonaut

Active Member
My apologies, I think I have confused things. I want an A-2, but I want it to look like an A-2 made in say 1941 and its now 1942 and it hasn't had a mega hard life. What I don't want is an A-2 to look like its made in 1941 but its now 2019.

So, my chances of finding an original I'd be interested in are extremely small.

Each to their own.
So you like new jackets and would pay a premium for a copy because of its newness. That is your preference.
My reason for a replica would be a size that is hard to obtain in a wearable condition. I also will not want to continually condition a new replica to maintain its newness. I want my replica to look vintage as well as aspiring to be one.
 

Lebowski

Well-Known Member
... higher end new repros are sold the same price as wearable original jackets in good condition...
Not really.
Wearable original jackets in good condition are extremely rare and usually cost several times more if in good wearable condition.
Even then its "wearable" condition might became totally unwearable condition in any short time of wearing them - just because of its significant age.
That's the reason to buy good repro even if having origial. Just to wear it.
Originals aren't for casual wearing regardless their current condion but considering their age.
That's the main reason to buy top quality good repro usually.
 

stanier

Well-Known Member
So you like new jackets and would pay a premium for a copy because of its newness. That is your preference.
My reason for a replica would be a size that is hard to obtain in a wearable condition. I also will not want to continually condition a new replica to maintain its newness. I want my replica to look vintage as well as aspiring to be one.
Agree. A jacket, original or repro, will have someone willing to pay for it depending on their criteria and how it meets their particular taste and need.
 

taikonaut

Active Member
Not really.
Wearable original jackets in good condition are extremely rare and usually cost several times more if in good wearable condition.
Even then its "wearable" condition might became totally unwearable condition in any short time of wearing them - just because of its significant age.
That's the reason to buy good repro even if having origial. Just to wear it.
Originals aren't for casual wearing regardless their current condion but considering their age.
That's the main reason to buy top quality good repro usually.
Then for you its about being practical from a newness standpoint. Sorry that aint no vintage but I get what you mean.
Surely same logic would apply if I just buy any new jacket.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
No disrespect to JC and other manufacturers. It may sound like an investment but at the end of the day they are reproductions. These higher end new repros are sold the same price as wearable original jackets in good condition. The irony is new repros need to be broken into to make them look like old WW2 ones and when they reach that condition they are usually worth no more than 50% of when they were new based on ebay price. They may come a point or I believe has happen already that it make no sense paying over $1k for a repro as long as wearable original WW2 examples can be had for those price. The only reason why anyone would pay those prices is for larger or unique sizes that are difficult to find with originals.
Did not see a wearable larger A-2 sold for 1K for ages.
 

Lebowski

Well-Known Member
Did not see a wearable larger A-2 sold for 1K for ages.
Not to mention A-1.
My comment above was mostly of A-2 and A-1 jackets.
Though some other original WWII period jacket patterns also become more and more expensive with the time being, as almost every historical original usually does.
But they don't become more wearable. And they won't.
That's what I'm talking about.
 
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taikonaut

Active Member
Did not see a wearable larger A-2 sold for 1K for ages.
A size 46" jacket wearer in 1940s would be considered a giant and a rare stock, possibly a ground crew.

Most typical WW2 fighter pilots were small guys and typically size 38 but I also think A2 jacket look best in size 38 worn by smaller men. The pocket remains the same size regardless of the sizes and I think it becomes noticeably less proportion on a bigger size jackets. In a smaller size the pockets pump up the chest area of smaller men while enforce the appearance of a slimmer stomach. This makes me wonder, when the miltary design the A2 contract ideally what size did it identify as most typical?

I bet this pilot is a size 36-38
https://www.eastmanleather.com/images/product_splashes/Pinksmont.jpg
 

Southoftheborder

Well-Known Member
No disrespect to JC and other manufacturers. It may sound like an investment but at the end of the day they are reproductions. These higher end new repros are sold the same price as wearable original jackets in good condition. The irony is new repros need to be broken into to make them look like old WW2 ones and when they reach that condition they are usually worth no more than 50% of when they were new based on ebay price. They may come a point or I believe has happen already that it make no sense paying over $1k for a repro as long as wearable original WW2 examples can be had for those price. The only reason why anyone would pay those prices is for larger or unique sizes that are difficult to find with originals.
If you're in the US where they still turn up regularly in good wearable condition then yes, maybe. But this side of the water jackets like that are now very rare and very expensive when they do appear. Forty years ago it was different and I knew a couple of people who wore originals daily then - and wore them out in the end...

Which is also the point. Do you want to buy a really nice original that has obviously been looked after and wear it until it's worn out and tatty? Repros are disposable and you can do what you like with them.

BTW I have a Good Wear A 2 still looking like new and I don't want to make it look like an eighty years old original. I like it the way it is. As it would have looked when it was new, if it was an original.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
A size 46" jacket wearer in 1940s would be considered a giant and a rare stock, possibly a ground crew.

Most typical WW2 fighter pilots were small guys and typically size 38 but I also think A2 jacket look best in size 38 worn by smaller men. The pocket remains the same size regardless of the sizes and I think it becomes noticeably less proportion on a bigger size jackets. In a smaller size the pockets pump up the chest area of smaller men while enforce the appearance of a slimmer stomach. This makes me wonder, when the miltary design the A2 contract ideally what size did it identify as most typical?

I bet this pilot is a size 36-38
https://www.eastmanleather.com/images/product_splashes/Pinksmont.jpg
Maybe, but pit to pit in 23"-24" (46" size) is not that big IMHO.
Agree on the slimmer stomach.
I had the full legacy/heritage of an USAAF pilot Col. ret.... all except his WW2 Flight jackets.. but all others, WW2 pinks, dress uniforms etc...
It was even too big for me... (I am a 46“ wearer...)
He flew P-46 and A-1 during WW2 and Korea.
Most of his guear and uniforms were offered here... Zero interest...so it went to?...guess.... sold within 8 H....
Just for the sake of mentioning the WW2 presence of a WW2 46“ chest...
Some USAAC /USAAF pilots were this size... even if very seldom, I agree.
OOHHHH ...BTW... my tailor in Korea is currently restauring a WW2 46“ CooperA-2 for me..All rotten except the leather and maker tags.
It was a now ID’ed WW2 /Korea war USAAF /USAF flyer ...another 24“ chested WW2 A-2
 
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taikonaut

Active Member
If you're in the US where they still turn up regularly in good wearable condition then yes, maybe. But this side of the water jackets like that are now very rare and very expensive when they do appear. Forty years ago it was different and I knew a couple of people who wore originals daily then - and wore them out in the end...

Which is also the point. Do you want to buy a really nice original that has obviously been looked after and wear it until it's worn out and tatty? Repros are disposable and you can do what you like with them.

BTW I have a Good Wear A 2 still looking like new and I don't want to make it look like an eighty years old original. I like it the way it is. As it would have looked when it was new, if it was an original.
An original WW2 jacket without provenance? Yes I would wear it to death and discard it if it no longer serviceable. We only live so long and a great jacket I would wear it than look at it.
 

Southoftheborder

Well-Known Member
And at what point would you think an article should be preserved? Would you wear a WW1 uniform tunic to death? Many years ago Victorian uniforms were in fashion and I remember I had a RN dress frock coat that was almost a hundred years old at the time. But I was young and even then I wouldn't have worn it so much that I wore it out.
 

taikonaut

Active Member
And at what point would you think an article should be preserved? Would you wear a WW1 uniform tunic to death? Many years ago Victorian uniforms were in fashion and I remember I had a RN dress frock coat that was almost a hundred years old at the time. But I was young and even then I wouldn't have worn it so much that I wore it out.
If its cool, any period. At what point? Provenance and if it is historically significant it should be in a museum. For me a no provenance A2 is not yet there.
 

stanier

Well-Known Member
Then for you its about being practical from a newness standpoint. Sorry that aint no vintage but I get what you mean.
Surely same logic would apply if I just buy any new jacket.
No and I think we have very different criteria that I’m not explaining well.

For me the vintage is in the look and recreation of the item and atmosphere and time. It is not about having something 80 years old because it’s 80 years old. Sure I have items of that age, but a jacket will likely bear the scars of that 80 years, and when you want to recreate the past authenticity is not in premature ageing as would be the case if it were possible to take an original from 2019 back to 1941. Not many originals from today would look and be as they are now back then.

It’s a different perspective, but no wrong because it’s different.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
Maybe a 0.1 cent quite dark picture input...
Upfront apologies and no offence intended.
Please feel free to check my sales and posts here...for the last two years...
Sold approx 8 high end repros here and elsewhere... in two years time ..All in all I lost approx. 4000 Euro depression calculated from new price compared to sales price to members... I do not mind nor complain....
This would never have happened with buying selling WW2 originals ...
Wear them... „good or suitable“ repros ...what ever your understanding is about „ good“ repros... low cost or high end whatever... But But But if you want to invest in sustainable ... invest only in WW2 or Korea , VN etc.... but granted originals.
This is my 0,1 cent experience here...and elsewhere..alternatively ... this is no more the place to offer high end repros ( for approx. 30-40% of the new price)...
No offence, no harm done... my little experience in two years here...
 
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Lebowski

Well-Known Member
Maybe a 0.1 cent quite dark picture input...
Upfront apologies and no offence intended.
Please feel free to check my sales and posts here...for the last two years...
Sold approx 8 high end repros here and elsewhere... in two years time ..All in all I lost approx. 4000 Euro depression calculated from new price compared to sales price to members... I do not mind nor complain....
This would never have happened with buying selling WW2 originals ...
Wear them... „good or suitable“ repros ...what ever your understanding is about „ good“ repros... low cost or high end whatever... But But But if you want to invest in sustainable ... invest only in WW2 or Korea , VN etc.... but granted originals.
This is my 0,1 cent experience here...and elsewhere..alternatively ... this is no more the place to offer high end repros ( for approx. 30-40% of the new price)...
No offence, no harm done... my little experience in two years here...
Brice, I've seen two different (almost opposite actually) thoughts in your comment above. Investing and wearing are different things.
So, invest into originals - well, yes. May be you're right. But wearing originals - doesn't sound like a good idea,
considering 1) its significant value, 2) not great durability because of its age, 3) its exreme rarity.
That's why if we're talking of real everyday wearing - we're talking about top quality repros. GW, Eastman, BK/Platon, etc.
That's the point.
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
Simply in terms of high end repros. My first GW cost me almost $500. Today, that jacket (if well-worn and yet well cared for ), could easily fetch that and more. If well preserved or unworn... Double that.
That said, imho, a jacket is made to be worn, and here Im talking about repros.
Again, that said... I have considered another Ja Dubow (Platon) as an investment. How long can he keep these prices like this... :rolleyes:
 
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