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Mona Lisa collar

A

Anonymous

Guest
To me the RW collar has all the mystery and intrigue of the famous lady's smile. Curves and countercurves seem so simple yet are very difficult to capture in a repro jacket- many have tried- most fall short... Here's my favorite of all time- the quintessential RW look:
hurley1943copy.jpg


impossible to explain why it looks so good- the combination of sloping (not droopy) shoulders and those curves looks amazing IMO!
A couple more of my faves:
Ashcraftcopy.jpg

and:
15_31_6-1copy.jpg



All the jacket are Roughwears and yet look different. There was a discussion somewhere about clown collars- they did exist in WW2 but I think mostly due oversizing and/or photographer's arrangement:
633735081418906250Alexandercopy.jpg


Here are examples of modern reproduction jacket clown collars for real!
Eastman:
oldeastmanclownbackcopy.jpg

eastmanoldclownflatcopy.jpg

eastmanclassicclowncopy.jpg


and RMNZ:
rmnzrwcopy.jpg

rmnzside_view-1copy.jpg


as you can see the photos are from JC's CD- I saw these particualr jackets in person and can vouch for the peculiar round, large unpleasant cone effect.
These guys were probably trying to copy the large Roughwear collars that are seen on some jackets- here's a 44 1401p original that had such a large collar:
1401plargecopy.jpg


The problem is that just making a big round-shaped collar just doesn't quite cut it (and using smooth couch leather didn't help either)...
IMO (and I can see you guys rolling your eyes) today there is one repro maker who captures the RW collar far better than anyone up to this point- of course I'm
talking aout Goodwear. Especially now John's pattern's "get" the RW collar and therefore look the most realistic when worn.

To me this GW jacket:
gwnonclowncopy.jpg

looks an awful like this jacket belonging to a famous general:
mac233380copy.jpg

This isn't necessarily the dramatic high collared RW of my first picture but it the most common and more subtle RW look as illustrated here:
war-photos-5-063copy.jpg


Anyway- my point is that the RW collar is large often and can frame the face more than other jackets like Dubows and Werbers which have either lower or smaller collars. Example:
masoncopy.jpg


My whole jacket obsession now has boiled down to the RW and its collar- I've studied every nuance and have tried to figure out it's little secrets. Goodwear's patterns are as close as you can get in 2011-
I recently sold a GW 27752 which had that perfect combination of big curvy collar and lively epaulets and grainy horsehide leather- I regret that a little but now I have a GW goatskin 18091 which is every bit as fantastic.
No one else come close at this point- Eastman has made some improvements in leather but still hasn't got a good pattern- also they doggedly continue to make the same mistakes in pocket height and windflap width throughout all their jackets!. RMNZ and the Japanese also try but have major failures in their RW patterns (pocket flaps, body shape among other things).
Last- another period photo which reminds me of why I like RWs...
QCKPersonnel32copy2.jpg
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Here are some photos of that amazing GW 27752 I owned. It was a tad large for me and I make a terrible model but I think you can see why I liked it:
100_2424.jpg

100_2429.jpg

100_2444.jpg

100_2454.jpg
 

Dr H

Well-Known Member
Very engaging post Jeff. I'm not taken by the pattern of the jacket, but I do feel that I 'get' it a little more having read this.
 

Dr H

Well-Known Member
...and by the by, does anybody recognise cute Yvonne Ashcraft's angelic patch? Was she a test/delivery pilot or similar?
 

Marv

Well-Known Member
Here's a couple of photos of my ELC RW 27752 when it was new about 9 months ago, it's broken in a lot since these pics were taken (don't have any up to date ones I'm afraid at present).

Including it's clown collar in all it's glory..........see what you all think.

daef791b.jpg


2dae9e75.jpg
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I don't think the newer Eastmans have the clown collar- it was the old models which had them...
 

Marv

Well-Known Member
It is a nice jacket but when compare it to JC's version you can definately see the discrepencies between the patterns.

At the time when I bought this from ELC I think John had halted new orders to clear the back log, I didn't really want to wait as we all didn't know when GW would start producing again.

After having a RW I am not sure whether I would get another as I am not too keen on the blousy torso but I do like the collar stand and pocket flaps so there's the dielema.

If I did it would be a GW this time but the choice would be between the 27752 again or the 1401P as I have never owned a russet A2 before, only seal.
 

better duck

Well-Known Member
rotenhahn said:
(....) and those curves looks amazing IMO!

Ashcraftcopy.jpg

Here the true jacket afficionado shows: when talking about the curves here, he is referring to the jacket, not the lady wearer: atta boy! :D

Here are some pics of my GW RW 27752:
When new:
IMG_6195A.jpg


Now, after 2 years of wearing it (a lot):

IMG_6207.jpg

GWRW27752HH2011-10-26collarback.jpg
 

Marv

Well-Known Member
Peter,
Your GW 27752 is very, very, nice.......I remember when you got it and posted the first pics, I thought WOW what a jacket and think your photos were part of the reason I decided to get a 27752 myself.

Does it fit like a modern day 46" or more like a 44"......
 

better duck

Well-Known Member
Marv said:
Does it fit like a modern day 46" or more like a 44"......
Thanks for the compliments Paul.
I'd say it is a 44, going on 46. It isn't exactly roomy, but let's say "snug". I love that fit: feeling you are wearing a body hugging jacket
 

RCSignals

Active Member
The RW collar really is a camelion sometimes definitely having the Clown collar look and others not at all. One of Andrew 'roughwear' photos of an original RW (pretty sure it was one of his photos) really had the clown collar in full effect. I can't find the photo now but it should still be here.
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Clowns wore all sorts of different collars and it is not a description I would ever use for original RW collars. :roll: The RW collar is unique and has its supporters and it detractors here. The debate is a circular one that will never reach a satisfactory conclusion and is best put to rest IMO.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
RW:
Clowns wore all sorts of different collars and it is not a description I would ever use for original RW collars. The RW collar is unique

I agree- the whole point of my post was to show the non-clownness of the original collar. When I first got re-interested in A-2s in the late 1990s apparently there were Eastman Roughwears that had gigantic circular "clown" collars. This is one thing (out of the many) things which even Eastman has corrected. The RMNZ RW copy has a large collar often but it is all that clownlike IMO...
 

Persimmon

Well-Known Member
RCSignals said:
The RW collar really is a camelion sometimes definitely having the Clown collar look and others not at all. One of Andrew 'roughwear' photos of an original RW (pretty sure it was one of his photos) really had the clown collar in full effect. I can't find the photo now but it should still be here.


Was this the jacket you had in mind ??

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10825&hilit=+16159
 

RCSignals

Active Member
Persimmon said:
RCSignals said:
The RW collar really is a camelion sometimes definitely having the Clown collar look and others not at all. One of Andrew 'roughwear' photos of an original RW (pretty sure it was one of his photos) really had the clown collar in full effect. I can't find the photo now but it should still be here.


Was this the jacket you had in mind ??

http://vintageleatherjackets.org/viewto ... lit=+16159

I think it is. that helped me find this http://vintageleatherjackets.org/viewto ... 72&p=73737
I think it was in another thread as well. There were quite a few comments on the collar, mostly in fun I believe.

Absolutely unbelievable original jacket. disclaimer: 'clown collar' isn't my term.
 

johnwayne

Well-Known Member
I know we've touched on this subject before and not that long ago I recall, when I mentioned my ELC 1401 and that at one point I even asked Gary if the collar had been mis-cut! I never did get a response (he clearly didn't wish to upset me by outlining my ignorance at the time!!).
I've had it years but rarely wear it (mainly 'cos it patched and I feel quite concious) but the collar is a shape I cant find myself liking too much, like I do say a Dubow, Doniger or Perry.
Strange though, I do quite like the look of many originals and GW's version.
Still, you pay your money and you takes your choice.
cheers
Wayne
 
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