MAJ. Farmer"s B-15 MOD final proof?

[deand]

From another thread, from the LIFE gallery, loads of close-ups of Major Carl Farmer have yielded what I believe is a definitive answer that the jacket he is wearing is a B-15D MOD. Note the lighter stitching around the collar in evidence in this photo:

Here, you can see where the white thread ends marked by the arrow:

Does this clinch it?





dean

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: MAJ. Farmer"s B-15 MOD final proof!

I noticed the stitching earlier in the original thread (no pun intended, but then it's inevitable I suppose), and no doubt it creates the impression that the collar could have been replaced and therefore we're looking at a B-15D. In some of the earlier shots there almost seems to be a contrast between the shade of the collar and cuff knits, while in other views they appear identical.

I can't tell for sure from the closeup if the stitching around the collar is indeed lighter, but this is seen in SOME original B-15D Mods as well as the Rickson copies. In fact, one of my originals has lighter stitching at the rear of the waistband just like the Buzz versions. However, I also have original MA-1s with less-than-perfect stitching around the collar.

For whatever reason I keep focusing on the oxygen mask tab of Farmer's jacket. I get the feeling that it looks a bit different than those on any of my D Mods. This too may be inconclusive, of course.

Today I'm pulling out my early originals and will post pics of several jackets. I don't have a Lion MA-1, but I'm sure we'll manage somehow.

 

[Tim P]

Re: MAJ. Farmer"s B-15 MOD final proof!

I ROCK

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: MAJ. Farmer"s B-15 MOD final proof!

You do indeed, Tim, but we should also tip our multicolored squadron caps to Dean in recognition of his tremendous progress thus far.

 

[deand]

Re: MAJ. Farmer"s B-15 MOD final proof!

I ROCK

Yes, you do...in spite of that, I cannot help but wonder if I was really seeing it right. Jim might have a point about the oxy tag. And I might be simply seeing white thread where it's only light on thread. Funny how you be so certain one second, and not so certain the next.




dean

 

[watchmanjimg]

Re: MAJ. Farmer"s B-15 MOD final proof!

The stitching definitely looks sloppy and this is not to be ignored as a clue. When I post comparison pics later on we'll have a better idea regarding the oxy tab. I'm also looking at the wind flap and if you compare Farmer's with Addington's you'll notice a difference. While I'm on the subject I'd point out the use of the unmodified B-15D well into the MA-1 era, and subsequent to the Technical Order calling for the substitution of the knit collar for the original mouton on the entire B-15 series.

No matter what, Farmer's jacket is still either a B-15D Mod or a Lion MA-1 and we knew this all along. In any event this and the other discussion regarding the Blue Anchor/Tops Apparel L-2B have been useful in helping sharpen our focus on details, to say nothing of an opportunity to have a great time BSing with one another as is the tendency on VLJ.

1911A1US, are you SURE you don't want to come back? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[dadgad]

Re: MAJ. Farmer"s B-15 MOD final proof!

I noticed the stitching earlier in the original thread (no pun intended, but then it's inevitable I suppose), and no doubt it creates the impression that the collar could have been replaced and therefore we're looking at a B-15D. In some of the earlier shots there almost seems to be a contrast between the shade of the collar and cuff knits, while in other views they appear identical.

I can't tell for sure from the closeup if the stitching around the collar is indeed lighter, but this is seen in SOME original B-15D Mods as well as the Rickson copies. In fact, one of my originals has lighter stitching at the rear of the waistband just like the Buzz versions. However, I also have original MA-1s with less-than-perfect stitching around the collar.

For whatever reason I keep focusing on the oxygen mask tab of Farmer's jacket. I get the feeling that it looks a bit different than those on any of my D Mods. This too may be inconclusive, of course.

Today I'm pulling out my early originals and will post pics of several jackets. I don't have a Lion MA-1, but I'm sure we'll manage somehow.

From my original Lion MA-1

The double stitching could be due to a zipper replacement considering that it goes down till the zipper box, check the vox tab for comparison with the tab
of B-15D.

 

[deand]

Re: MAJ. Farmer"s B-15 MOD final proof!

The oxy tab, especially after comparing it to Addigton's B-15, pre-mod, is indeed the most reliable indicator that Maj. Farmer had an MA-1, (ee-eye, ee-eye, OH-H-H!). And if an MA-1, then the squared off wind flap leaves us with only one alternative...the Lion MA-1, 1957 MIL-J-8297! Thus, in shame and embarrasment :cry: I have edited the thread title. Jim, YOU ARE THE MAN! Tim, you still rock. I do this mindful that the debate might still continue into detail fixated hell as nauseum but that's what I love about this place!

Please note also in this photo, the piece of nylon on the zipper pull, which corresponds to the one on the original pictured above in this thread. Maj. Farmer looks very harried here.

dean





dean

 

[greyhound52]

Could very well be that. Here is a Lion Uniform B-15D MOD original

Lion Uniform B-15D Mod

 

[deeb7]

Re: MAJ. Farmer"s B-15 MOD final proof!

And if an MA-1, then the squared off wind flap leaves us with only one alternative...the Lion MA-1, 1957 MIL-J-8297!

So why is it the Lion? Why can't it be one of the other MIL-J-8279 contracts?

 

[watchmanjimg]

So why is it the Lion? Why can't it be one of the other MIL-J-8279 contracts?

Based solely on the square wind flap it could be, but what about the Crown zipper?

 

[watchmanjimg]

Could very well be that. Here is a Lion Uniform B-15D MOD original

Lion Uniform B-15D Mod

This is an angle we hadn't previously considered. While there was a lot of focus on the Lion MA-1, I didn't hear anyone mention their B-15D until now--myself included. Here's a link with some very good pics of the Lion D:

http://my.internetacademy.jp/~a01020172 ... f/fj-f.htm

The jacket shown has a wide wind flap as well as the same type of oxy tab used in their MA-1. At this point I'm not sure we'll even know whether it's an MA-1 or B-15D Mod, but my money is on Lion as the maker of MAJ Farmer's jacket.

 

[deeb7]

Based solely on the square wind flap it could be, but what about the Crown zipper?

Thanks, Jim ... I didn't realise that Lion were the only maker to use the Crown.

 

[deand]

So why is it the Lion? Why can't it be one of the other MIL-J-8279 contracts?

Based solely on the square wind flap it could be, but what about the Crown zipper?

I don't have enough knowledge to suggest another contract, only what I've gleaned here. The day will come, though...





dean

 

[watchmanjimg]

The last few posts to this thread really help us determine the maker of Farmer's jacket, but I'll try to explain why I harped on the oxy tab. The first two pics show my B-15D Mods, maker unknown but I strongly suspect Rolen Sportswear based on photos of originals. Note how the leading edge of the tab is left unfinished, which differs from that of known MA-1s, Farmer's jacket, and George's Lion B-15D. Note also the leather puller tabs, as opposed to the strip of cotton webbing used (to the best of my knowledge) exclusively by Lion Uniform:

Here are two shots of an unmodified Rolen B-15D, showing the unfinished leading edge on the oxy tab. Note also the cotton webbing hanger loop in the photo at right, which is identical to that of one of my jackets:

Here's the oxy tab of a Skyline 8279, but every other early MA-1 in my collection is the same. Here the leading edge of the tab is folded over and stitched, presumably to prevent the clip attaching the oxygen mask to slip off unintentionally:

The upshot of all this is that Farmer's jacket shows all the hallmarks of a Lion Uniform product. The wind flap, oxy tab, and Crown zip with cotton web puller are all telltale signs of the maker. However, as Danny pointed out earlier we'll never know which model it is without seeing the label . . . :x