Irvin Elastic Strap??

[coanda]

So who out there can provide the definitive answer as to what exactly the elastic strap on the back of the collar on all but very late war"Irvin" jackets was designed for?? I have heard many theories the latest of which is what has prompted this question, was that is was intended as an emergency tourniquet........ Certainly my original understanding was it was a "collar stand" or strap, certainly they perform very poorly in this roll, yet they were placed on every jacket regardless of manufacturer, so they we have it over to you all......(Andrew?)
Regards to all
Rick

 

[John Lever]

I use them to hold the collar up. Looks daft though having a strap across the forehead, bit like Benny Hill...

 

[Falcon_52]

Rick:

John is correct. I think it was Andrew (from Australia not Andrew Swatland) that posted a scan of the original design/patent documents for the Irvin flight jacket. I can't seem to locate it now but I believe the original function described in there was to hold the collar upright and provide a seal around the face to minimize heat loss.

Noel

 

[philip.ed]

Also, in a similar way, to keep the (d-type) oxygen mask in place.

 

[John Lever]

It really does work. I had no real idea what it was for before only that it was to facilitate the fast operation of the collar. When we were in Austria my custom Aero collar would not stay in place, so I just did it and my ears stayed nice and warm.. My wife thought I looked a fool though...

 

[PADDY_M]

Collar stand - simple.

 

[B-Man2]

I be interested in seing a photograph of the strap being used.
Has anyone ever seen a WWII period picture with it in use?

B-Man2

 

[philip.ed]

I be interested in seing a photograph of the strap being used.
Has anyone ever seen a WWII period picture with it in use?

B-Man2

Never on an Irvin, I don't think....

 

[ghq1]

Propped up like this?
http://www.aircrewremembrancesociet...ictor_files/wing-commander-vic-hodgkinson.jpg

http://www.aircrewremembrancesociet...files/wing-commander-vic-hodgkinson-d.f.c.jpg

Victor Alean Hodgkinson R.A.A.F

http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/raf1941/3/hodgkinsonvictor.html

 

[B-Man2]

Sorry;

I'm not receiving the photographs.
If anyone received them would you re-post them please.

Thanks
B-Man2

 

[Vcruiser]

Access Forbidden...

 

[Andrew]

Rick:

John is correct. I think it was Andrew (from Australia not Andrew Swatland) that posted a scan of the original design/patent documents for the Irvin flight jacket. I can't seem to locate it now but I believe the original function described in there was to hold the collar upright and provide a seal around the face to minimize heat loss.

Noel

Yes Noel, I thought I had it in photobucket but it seems to have disappeared. I'll try to locate it.

It was purely to hold the collar in an upright position and was intended for open cockpit flight- not needed in an exclosed cockpit hence it was deleted in later model jackets.

In the meantime, from The Horses Mouth in the patent description;

" The jacket portion 1 of the suit shown in the drawings includes a collar 16 and an elastic band 17 is fitted to said collar and adapted to pass over the head of the wearer for the purpose of keeping said collar in upturned position. The front parts of said collar preferably overlap each other so that a substantially weather tight junction may be formed and if desired both contacting parts of said overlapping parts may be lined with fleece, fur or other suitable pile material to enhance the sealing effect."

 

[pietrzak]

Use this link - should be able to see it clearly:
http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.co ... ictor.html

Kind regards
Kelvin
webmaster Aircrew Remembrance Society

 

[Roughwear]

The elastic collar securing strap was used on the earliest Irvins from 1931-2. Here are the original drawings which Andrew was describing in his post.

The elastic strap was designed in an era of open cockpit planes and when brought up over the head to rest on the forehead kept the collar up.

 

[John Lever]

Andrew, it looks like the drawing is actually for a B-2 or B-1 ?

 

[Roughwear]

I agree, John. When you look at these and other drawings from the Irvin patent there are many similarities with the B1. Here are more drawings from the GB patent.

 

[B-Man2]

I would still like to know if anyone has any WWII photographs of the collar strap in use.
I've never seen one.

Regards
B-Man2

 

[Andrew]

Andrew, it looks like the drawing is actually for a B-2 or B-1 ?

John, that patent was lodged in 1933 and approved in 1934 so it was a bit more generic. I don't think the pattern itself was ever updated with the Patents Office.

 

[John Lever]

I wonder if the RAF ever issued B-1's ?

 

[Roughwear]

Andrew, it looks like the drawing is actually for a B-2 or B-1 ?

John, that patent was lodged in 1933 and approved in 1934 so it was a bit more generic. I don't think the pattern itself was ever updated with the Patents Office.

This is all true. The early Irvins were not like the pics above, never having the B-1 style chest pocket and front collar closures for example. An early example from 1932 lacked the half waistbelt all the other features associated with later Irvins, inlcung the sheepskin turned back cuffs and hem.