Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
angels on the head of a pin.
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"I do think the grain thing has gone to extremes compared to most WW2 examples"
- Thread starter Julius
- Start date
Edward
Well-Known Member
agreed. that just looks wrinkled. looks contrived.This, for me, is one of the wort example of over grainy repro jacket that tries way too hard to achieve the look of a well worn original:
Someone is making an arbitrary statement, a couple of others agree with it and just like that it becomes truth, like common practice and custom becomes law. Then if someone questions it and asks on what grounds it is based is attacked by everybody. Reminds me of the typical inmates gang behavior in state prisons that we see in Hollywood movies.
I have been very polite from the start and what I received was insult and hostility. Why? I didn't ask for that. I asked for photos that support the opinion that the subject of the thread is true. Do you have any or don't you?
You are not making yourself clear.
Are you saying that repros cannot look like originals? i.e. that current repros don't have extreme grain? right?
Is so then you disagree with the statement of the subject, right? Then we are on the same side, aren't we?
Not looking for an argument. Looking for
When you write your thesis in the university you are expected to cite your sources, provide references, and test your hypotheses otherwise what you say doesn't count. And before you reach a conclusion you are expected to make a survey or have some interviews with industry participants. I don't suppose Officer Dibley has done any of that before he said " I do think the grain thing has gone to extremes compared to most WW2 examples"
It seems anyone can say whatever the hell he wants here.
In a conversation between grown ups you are supposed to back what you say with some sort of fact, not "cause I said so" and try to silence the opposing opinions. You can take that to the kindergarten.
Bullshit. It seems some people here are so immature that cannot have a serious civilized debate. When they hear something they don't like or approve they start the insults. See post #5.
To get back to the subject I believe that If you walk to an ELC retailer (for example) and you see 20 A-2 jackets, only 1 or 2 will be grainy. That in my opinion is not "extreme". If on the other hand if all 20 jackets are super grainy, that would be extreme.
Anyone thinks differently?
I have been very polite from the start and what I received was insult and hostility. Why? I didn't ask for that. I asked for photos that support the opinion that the subject of the thread is true. Do you have any or don't you?
You are not making yourself clear.
Are you saying that repros cannot look like originals? i.e. that current repros don't have extreme grain? right?
Is so then you disagree with the statement of the subject, right? Then we are on the same side, aren't we?
Not looking for an argument. Looking for
When you write your thesis in the university you are expected to cite your sources, provide references, and test your hypotheses otherwise what you say doesn't count. And before you reach a conclusion you are expected to make a survey or have some interviews with industry participants. I don't suppose Officer Dibley has done any of that before he said " I do think the grain thing has gone to extremes compared to most WW2 examples"
It seems anyone can say whatever the hell he wants here.
In a conversation between grown ups you are supposed to back what you say with some sort of fact, not "cause I said so" and try to silence the opposing opinions. You can take that to the kindergarten.
Bullshit. It seems some people here are so immature that cannot have a serious civilized debate. When they hear something they don't like or approve they start the insults. See post #5.
To get back to the subject I believe that If you walk to an ELC retailer (for example) and you see 20 A-2 jackets, only 1 or 2 will be grainy. That in my opinion is not "extreme". If on the other hand if all 20 jackets are super grainy, that would be extreme.
Anyone thinks differently?
Edward
Well-Known Member
I don't feel the need nor necessity to write you a thesis. tell you what.. how about you do all the work... its your topic. you bring the sources, provide references and test your own hypotheses otherwise your opinion doesn't count. how about that? go do some goddam research and find some reference and make a survey or have some interviews with industry participants then provide your sources for us and we will then read your dissertation with much interest. I doubt YOU have done any of that.... not doing it for you bro. go do your homework and get back to us.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Nope. You start shitfights by being deliberately abrasive. Accusing Jeff on the first page of trolling simply because he disagreed with your initial statement is perfect evidence of that. You even sent me a PM a couple of months back when I'd happened to sing John Chapman's praises, telling me how I was wrong to do that.
I get the impression you're perhaps not from an English speaking country so maybe the social mores where you come from are different. Where I come from though the behaviour I mention above is often referred to as acting like a prick.
Not everyone is going to agree with what you say - the same as with anyone on here - so don't throw a toddler temper tantrum if they don't.
Edward
Well-Known Member
no it seems you are the one here just for fun... wanting to start shit.
( Officer Dibley said " I do think the grain thing has gone to extremes compared to most WW2 examples"
he didn't state it as fact.. he said he thinks this is the case in his opinion. why is he being now scolded and belittled for his belief and point of view? he didn't state it as a fact. nor does ne need to provide proof, sources and write a term paper for you.
seems you can say whatever the hell you want here.
Edward
Well-Known Member
I've had enough of this asshole so I'm out of this thread. Julius is an irritating jerk and I'll be hitting the ignore button for this one. I do appreciate the nuances of vintage vs. repro leather jackets but I don't need to be a part of some straw man argument and told our opinions don't count because we can't backup our theories or opinions with qualified sources and submit our ideas to him as a research paper with a long list of certified references just to entertain Julius' bent perversion on leather grain.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Whoa ..... there Julius Seems like the only thing you succeeded in proving thru this entire thread was my earlier comment to you..
“Opinions are welcomed here, rudeness and accusations are not”
Here’s another thought you might want to consider :
The more you single out people with your abrasive and rude comments, the more people are going to respond to you in the same fashion.
Now you didn’t accept my earlier advise and I’m fairly sure you won’t accept it now.
So I would prepare myself for the next ass ripping that will surely come following your next abrasive posting . Why not just chill and let things calm down, and most here will address your question with a well intentioned and meaningful response.
Cheers
B-Man2
Persimmon
Well-Known Member
Yes that was the point. All the childish pathetic immature posts.
I was jokingly trying to suggest a left field post as a way of stopping it.
Irony is lost sometimes.
Smithy, that's is not how it happened and you know it.
And Jeff could not have been serious in his reply that was out of topic, he was perhaps teasing me. That gave me the right to say he was maybe trolling me but it does not give you the right to tell me I am acting like a prick.
Bullshit. I am not being deliberately abrasive. I am just not going to get insulted and sit doing nothing. I am not a chicken. I reply politely to the insults.
All I did was ask for photos of repro jackets showing extreme grain and you started war.
I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I expect them to share their views based on something so that we can exchange useful information to the benefit of everyone who reads here. I certainly don't expect you guys to call me names because of that, but you did.
Officer Dibley is allowed to have his opinion, I did not forbid him to have his opinion, I cannot do that, I just asked where he based his opinion. What is wrong with that? When was he "scolded and belittled for his belief"? When he called me a twat?
B-Man2, I didn't call anyone any names neither I offended anyone who didn't deserve it. Edward is calling me an asshole and an irritating jerk one post above yours but you are perfectly OK with that. (We can all see how objective you are).
Edward, I could have easily make a research with surveys and interviews but for whom? You? and the likes of you? I would do it if there was genuine interest and if such effort was welcome and appreciated. But from what I can see you only came here to shit on my thread and insult me. I really don't care if you do, I just witness you showing to the others the quality of your character.
I already lost any interest (getting insulted for sharing my opinion is not of my interest) so to those who really care about the topic, you can continue without me.
Before I go, I need to thank Brettafett for his honest post, (although he removed it because he saw what was coming) and also Ken, D97x7 (Nick), Juanito, Jeremiah and Cocker who contributed to this thread.
And Jeff could not have been serious in his reply that was out of topic, he was perhaps teasing me. That gave me the right to say he was maybe trolling me but it does not give you the right to tell me I am acting like a prick.
Bullshit. I am not being deliberately abrasive. I am just not going to get insulted and sit doing nothing. I am not a chicken. I reply politely to the insults.
All I did was ask for photos of repro jackets showing extreme grain and you started war.
I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I expect them to share their views based on something so that we can exchange useful information to the benefit of everyone who reads here. I certainly don't expect you guys to call me names because of that, but you did.
Officer Dibley is allowed to have his opinion, I did not forbid him to have his opinion, I cannot do that, I just asked where he based his opinion. What is wrong with that? When was he "scolded and belittled for his belief"? When he called me a twat?
B-Man2, I didn't call anyone any names neither I offended anyone who didn't deserve it. Edward is calling me an asshole and an irritating jerk one post above yours but you are perfectly OK with that. (We can all see how objective you are).
Edward, I could have easily make a research with surveys and interviews but for whom? You? and the likes of you? I would do it if there was genuine interest and if such effort was welcome and appreciated. But from what I can see you only came here to shit on my thread and insult me. I really don't care if you do, I just witness you showing to the others the quality of your character.
I already lost any interest (getting insulted for sharing my opinion is not of my interest) so to those who really care about the topic, you can continue without me.
Before I go, I need to thank Brettafett for his honest post, (although he removed it because he saw what was coming) and also Ken, D97x7 (Nick), Juanito, Jeremiah and Cocker who contributed to this thread.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Except you've been a pricky fellow from the moment you started posting as witnessed by anyone going through your posts since joining. Being rude, calling people trolls, sending PMs out of the blue to members to try and berate their opinions doesn't help you to play the victim card.
Act like an ass and people tend to treat you like a donkey.
Act like an ass and people tend to treat you like a donkey.
Edward
Well-Known Member
yes I admit I crossed the line with the name calling. for that I do appologize. what should have been a fun and informative thread was nothing but a frustrating and annoying rollercoaster of rebuttals after sharing our views but it was often nothing being good enough for you and demands for validation... for what? its a jacket. wear it.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
That's the thing which gets me now Edward. I've been "into" the vintage flying jacket thing properly for about 13 years and have now worked professionally with historical aviation artefacts including original A-2s and the thing is, I'm actually more amazed now with how people can get seriously worked up and pissed off about a piece of clothing and the smallest details of a replica.
Maybe I'm getting older but I really don't think it's worth getting your blood pressure up about a piece of clothing which was worn 75 years ago and certainly not getting pissed off with complete strangers from the other side of the world.
We're even talking about repros here, jackets which aren't even the real deal. FFS just chill and if you like something wear it. A repro is never going to be a 100% copy of an original so arguing about it being so is completely bloody pointless.
I'm bowing out of this thread. As my old man used to say, why spend time on shit that doesn't really matter.
Edward
Well-Known Member
agreed! its supposed to be fun I love seeing the details of an original. I also admire and appreciate the artistry of the repro makers and what they offer. they offer a love letter to the aviators of yesteryear and a way for today's fans of the A-2 to wear one and get a sense of what it feels like to wear one... I love both repro and vintage. could only afford one real vintage A-2 and its fun to own and look over... I feel this topic on A-2 jackets is supposed to be fun. no need for angst and bickering over jackets! lol! my fakes have just enough grain and texture and are weathering down nicely! and whats' more? they are real horse hide, fit me well and are fun to wear! oh, did I mention they are fun to own and wear? Hey Smithy, lets go to another thread and look at jackets and admire them and have fun!
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
Glad I was busy at work for this one..
Officer Dibley
Well-Known Member
To accuse Burt of being a troll - can’t be ‘avin that ! As i’m ignoring the real troll, this thread looks quite innoccuous ! Lol
taikonaut
Active Member
Avoiding the forum fights and back on topic.
I've heard that early WW2 or pre-war A2s the hide are not so grainy, these were considered premium hide. Grainy hides were considered lower quality hide. Later WW2 more grainy and mixed hides were used due to increase demand.
I own several ELC repros and they all feel a little stiff in a way that it does not drape like any of the originals I have. However I acquired an ELC jacket recently and to my surprise this one actually drape close to a WW2 original. It feels very relaxed and I can literarly crumpled it all up with ease. Why is this one different? Maybe an experimental tanning method that came out right?
I've heard that early WW2 or pre-war A2s the hide are not so grainy, these were considered premium hide. Grainy hides were considered lower quality hide. Later WW2 more grainy and mixed hides were used due to increase demand.
I own several ELC repros and they all feel a little stiff in a way that it does not drape like any of the originals I have. However I acquired an ELC jacket recently and to my surprise this one actually drape close to a WW2 original. It feels very relaxed and I can literarly crumpled it all up with ease. Why is this one different? Maybe an experimental tanning method that came out right?
