"I do think the grain thing has gone to extremes compared to most WW2 examples"

[Julius]

Do you agree with the above statement?
I don't.

I haven't recently seen (recently is the last 5 years that I can remember) any repro jackets with enough grain to compare to originals.
I do maintain the view that repro makers advertise on their website the most grainy jackets they have (it's normal) but then when you buy it's not as grainy because I guess with the leathers they use they can make 1 grainy for every 20 jackets they make. That is perhaps why GW's sale page is so popular because customers can see the exact same jacket that they are buying while when buying for example from ELC or others they don't know what they are going to get.

I heard some voices that they say sold some grainy jackets, but then I guess we are not talking about the same "grain".

If you own a jacket that has been purchased recently, have seen, or sold a grainy jacket of which the grain can be compared to grainy originals please post here for all of us to see.

If not, then I guess the subject statement is not true.

Thanks.

 

[Bombing IP]

Purchased grain does not equal honest worn in grain by owner for looks the latter is better .

BIP

 

[Julius]

I take it you agree with the subject statement.
Then show us honest worn in grain please.
Let's see how "extreme" it is and how it compares with originals.

Either that or you are trolling me.

 

[Brettafett]

Removed

 

[Officer Dibley]

Either that or you are trolling me.

You sir are a twat. A johnny come lately with a whole 59 posts of nothing. To accuse Burt of being a troll only makes you look a right bellend. Off to the ignore bin with you. Snowflake

 

[B-Man2]

Hi Julius
Not trolling you but just expressing an opinion. The premise of your question is incorrect. Let me explain;
Your trying to compare a new out of the box repro jackets graining with one that is 75 plus years old. It can’t be done. The original jacket your trying to compare the repro to was with 95% probability, a smooth leather jacket when it was issued in new condition. It took 75 years of rain, snow, wear and abuse to develop the grain your looking to reproduce in a new repro. A more accurate comparison would be taking a repro from that time period and comparing it to the same original but we all know that can’t be done. I’d say that in 75 plus years your new ELC, Good Wear, Aero, and even your low end jackets like AVI or a mall jacket will have grain if worn consistently under the same conditions as an original. Today’s jacket makers are trying to accelerate the graining process utilizing different tanning procedures to obtain the graining effect . That’s not the real deal. Wear it, beat the piss out of it , and wait several years and it will have the grain you want. Thanks for considering my opinion.
Cheers
B-Man2
PS it’s not good form to accuse anyone of trolling just because they’ve expressed a difference in opinion.

 

[Julius]

Officer Dibley you are twice the twat I will ever be.
All big fat words and no photos.
Talk is cheap bro.


Brettafett thanks, I have seen many originals and many repros. There was a large number of grainy originals and a significantly smaller number of grainy repros. That leads to the assumption that the percentage of grainy originals was larger than the percentage of grainy repros. Then again there were something like 500,000 original jackets issued and I doubt the repro makers have sold so many yet.

B-Man2 are you BIP's advocate?
Anyway, I respect your opinion but I still disagree because there are period photos showing grainy jackets and the jackets were new at the time the photos were taken. I also disagree because there are some (a very limited number of) grainy repros out of the box. I disagree that grain will develop from wearing the jacket. Not in 5 not in 75 years. In my opinion, if grain isn't there from the beginning, it won't magically appear no matter how much you wear the jacket. Yes creases will appear, but not grain. Grain will be enhanced by maybe 5% but that is not enough to change the overall appearance of the jacket. In my opinion original jackets that have extreme grain had it also when new (there are photos around). I still STRONGLY disagree with the statement that repros have gone to extremes with the grain. There is absolutely no evidence to support that.

I’d say that in 75 plus years your new ELC, Good Wear, Aero, and even your low end jackets like AVI or a mall jacket will have grain if worn consistently under the same conditions as an original.

You beat yourself with your above statement. It's like you admit that "grain thing has gone to extremes compared to most WW2 examples" is wrong while you seem you are trying to defend it. If new repros need 75 years of wearing to show grain then how repros have gone to extremes compared with WW2? (I am probably wasting my time here.)

waiting.....

waiting.....


waiting.....

but still no photos that prove that repros have gone to extremes compared with WW2...

 

[Persimmon]

I don’t believe I’m saying this but can we take a enormous fork in the thread and talk about - the Goldie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Officer Dibley]

I don’t believe I’m saying this but can we take a enormous fork in the thread and talk about - the Goldie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn’t that a different thread ??

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

 

[Julius]

11 posts and counting
and still no photos ot repros with extreme grain...

 

[D97x7]

Is this what you mean, BK Dubow in seal liberty,

 

[Julius]

Yes thanks that's good and extreme grain. And you don't wear this for 75 years.
But how many jackets have this?
I don't think it's more than 10%

 

[Edward]

Julius. Are you just looking for an argument to somehow make yourself feel good about yourself? This “discussion “ was already one sided on your own instigating. Why are you being so combative? It’s annoying and this has become a straw man argument.

 

[jeremiah]

 

[B-Man2]

Officer Dibley you are twice the twat I will ever be.
All big fat words and no photos.
Talk is cheap bro.


Brettafett thanks, I have seen many originals and many repros. There was a large number of grainy originals and a significantly smaller number of grainy repros. That leads to the assumption that the percentage of grainy originals was larger than the percentage of grainy repros. Then again there were something like 500,000 original jackets issued and I doubt the repro makers have sold so many yet.

B-Man2 are you BIP's advocate?
Anyway, I respect your opinion but I still disagree because there are period photos showing grainy jackets and the jackets were new at the time the photos were taken. I also disagree because there are some (a very limited number of) grainy repros out of the box. I disagree that grain will develop from wearing the jacket. Not in 5 not in 75 years. In my opinion, if grain isn't there from the beginning, it won't magically appear no matter how much you wear the jacket. Yes creases will appear, but not grain. Grain will be enhanced by maybe 5% but that is not enough to change the overall appearance of the jacket. In my opinion original jackets that have extreme grain had it also when new (there are photos around). I still STRONGLY disagree with the statement that repros have gone to extremes with the grain. There is absolutely no evidence to support that.



You beat yourself with your above statement. It's like you admit that "grain thing has gone to extremes compared to most WW2 examples" is wrong while you seem you are trying to defend it. If new repros need 75 years of wearing to show grain then how repros have gone to extremes compared with WW2? (I am probably wasting my time here.)

waiting.....

waiting.....


waiting.....

but still no photos that prove that repros have gone to extremes compared with WW2...

And all of the above is YOUR Opinion, and
I RESPECT that .... There’s a lesson to be learned here my friend. Take a breath a read between the lines. Opinions are welcome here, rudeness and accusations are not.

 

[Juanito]

11 posts and counting
and still no photos ot repros with extreme grain...

I am not sure what this conversation is really about, but for what it is worth, here's a repro Werber I owned that would be considered grainy:

 

[Smithy]

Hi Julius
Not trolling you but just expressing an opinion. The premise of your question is incorrect. Let me explain;
Your trying to compare a new out of the box repro jackets graining with one that is 75 plus years old. It can’t be done. The original jacket your trying to compare the repro to was with 95% probability, a smooth leather jacket when it was issued in new condition. It took 75 years of rain, snow, wear and abuse to develop the grain your looking to reproduce in a new repro. A more accurate comparison would be taking a repro from that time period and comparing it to the same original but we all know that can’t be done. I’d say that in 75 plus years your new ELC, Good Wear, Aero, and even your low end jackets like AVI or a mall jacket will have grain if worn consistently under the same conditions as an original. Today’s jacket makers are trying to accelerate the graining process utilizing different tanning procedures to obtain the graining effect . That’s not the real deal. Wear it, beat the piss out of it , and wait several years and it will have the grain you want. Thanks for considering my opinion.
Cheers
B-Man2
PS it’s not good form to accuse anyone of trolling just because they’ve expressed a difference in opinion.

This times 100.

Even the highest, best repros are just that. They are not originals. The leather they use is not tanned nor is it finished the same way as originals, they are not even constructed under the same conditions. All repros even the best ones are simply very nice homages to the original jackets, they are not facsimiles of them.

The other important factor is that the new, high end repros are trying to look like 75 year old original jackets if not straight out of the box, then in a very short time frame.

Julius. Are you just looking for an argument to somehow make yourself feel good about yourself? This “discussion “ was already one sided on your own instigating. Why are you being so combative? It’s annoying and this has become a straw man argument.

Edward, Julius seems to like to try and stir the pot and gets himself worked up into a lather in short order about certain things concerning A-2 jackets. I posted a nice comment about John Chapman and he sent me a PM out of the blue remonstrating me for the comment. Maybe where he comes from manners are slightly different from where we come from.

As I've said before though. It's pretty pathetic for grown men to get wound up and bitchy about a piece of clothing. I reckon the guys who originally wore these things would think it was pretty childish and pathetic too.

 

[jeremiah]

My re dyed BK dubow is nice and wrinkled.

 

[Cocker]

This, for me, is one of the wort example of over grainy repro jacket that tries way too hard to achieve the look of a well worn original: