Horsehide RESURGENCE!

[DiamondDave]

Gents,

I was just last Friday ordering some new HH, and in speaking with my supplier in Maine, I asked why this last batch was so heavy and what it was being produced for. He answered "For the US Air Force" and I said... "ahem, excuse me?" He went on to tell me that the USAF has gone back to the use of both cow and HH in large production runs of the type A-2 jacket.

Apparently too many companies in the US were having trouble with sourcing goatskin, while keeping in line with the rules of the Berry Amendment. As such, the AF went back to HH as well as cow, but both to be done to the same standard and in the same flat mid brown color. The hides in question are also mandated to be semi-aniline and finished with the pigment, so that the resulting underside looks very much like what Real McCoys gets from Shinki. This stuff is GREAT... almost as heavy as the Shinki, but in a flat pigment finish. Just a little modification to my sewing practices, and a color nudge, and this stuff is gonna be GOLDEN for my uses. Perhaps even for the uses of some of my fellow jacket makers as well.

That is all the news that is fit to report from the DOD these days.

Ciao for now,

DD

 

[mezz07]

Maybe the modern A-2s will be worth talking about again. Very interesting!

 

[ButteMT61]

I've also noticed many pilots at airports these days wearing "A-2's”. I use quotes 'cause some were pretty bad looking - like a uniform company made them. But still, seems to be coming into vogue again?

 

[Dr H]

Interesting it on BBC Radio 4 last night (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b037vb44) on cultured hide (effectively 3D printed protein).
Fascinating stuff for the polymer chemist or the layperson.

 

[Officer Dibley]

I've also noticed many pilots at airports these days wearing "A-2's”. I use quotes 'cause some were pretty bad looking - like a uniform company made them. But still, seems to be coming into vogue again?

I work on 3 USAF bases and deal with aircrew all the time. Some wear the issue A-2's looked down upon by some jacket snobs here. Difference is that these guys and ladies really are combat airmen and not carpenter, teachers, office workers etc and could care less about how their jacket compares with a wartime one. Much as the original airmen in WW2 did not waste their time talking about and comparing makers or asking their buddies if they had "The Look". The look is only important if you are a poseur

The modern airman's badge of pride is their being able to wear their flightsuits whether flying or seconded to Flight Safety or MSG. The jacket is an irrelevance or bit of fluff for real aircrew.

Nothing wrong if you want to be obsessive about contracts or pocket flaps or asking people how you look in you jacket but the folks who really do the do don't give a flying fart about such trivia - they have more important things to worry about like actually flying an $82,000,000 airframe. And a more polite, professional, competent and modest bunch of folk I have yet to meet. They could care less about the cut or which hide their non flight status jacket is made of.

 

[ButteMT61]

I've also noticed many pilots at airports these days wearing "A-2's”. I use quotes 'cause some were pretty bad looking - like a uniform company made them. But still, seems to be coming into vogue again?

I work on 3 USAF bases and deal with aircrew all the time. Some wear the issue A-2's looked down upon by some jacket snobs here. Difference is that these guys and ladies really are combat airmen and not carpenter, teachers, office workers etc and could care less about how their jacket compares with a wartime one. Much as the original airmen in WW2 did not waste their time talking about and comparing makers or asking their buddies if they had "The Look". The look is only important if you are a poseur

The modern airman's badge of pride is their being able to wear their flightsuits whether flying or seconded to Flight Safety or MSG. The jacket is an irrelevance or bit of fluff for real aircrew.

Nothing wrong if you want to be obsessive about contracts or pocket flaps or asking people how you look in you jacket but the folks who really do the do don't give a flying fart about such trivia - they have more important things to worry about like actually flying an $82,000,000 airframe. And a more polite, professional, competent and modest bunch of folk I have yet to meet. They could care less about the cut or which hide their non flight status jacket is made of.

My brother is a US Marine. And a pilot. He'd agree with you. Same with my dad - a B-36 airman. Me, I'm a computer jockey. I care how they look and fit mostly.

 

[grommet]

I've also noticed many pilots at airports these days wearing "A-2's”. I use quotes 'cause some were pretty bad looking - like a uniform company made them. But still, seems to be coming into vogue again?

I work on 3 USAF bases and deal with aircrew all the time. Some wear the issue A-2's looked down upon by some jacket snobs here. Difference is that these guys and ladies really are combat airmen and not carpenter, teachers, office workers etc and could care less about how their jacket compares with a wartime one. Much as the original airmen in WW2 did not waste their time talking about and comparing makers or asking their buddies if they had "The Look". The look is only important if you are a poseur

The modern airman's badge of pride is their being able to wear their flightsuits whether flying or seconded to Flight Safety or MSG. The jacket is an irrelevance or bit of fluff for real aircrew.

Nothing wrong if you want to be obsessive about contracts or pocket flaps or asking people how you look in you jacket but the folks who really do the do don't give a flying fart about such trivia - they have more important things to worry about like actually flying an $82,000,000 airframe. And a more polite, professional, competent and modest bunch of folk I have yet to meet. They could care less about the cut or which hide their non flight status jacket is made of.

That's fine for you and them. Don't get me wrong, I respect what these guys do for us. At the same time, I believe that I've paid my dues as much as these airmen. I am not ashamed to wear the jacket or care about "the look". Perhaps many of the other "poseurs" on the forum feel the same.

 

[mezz07]

The young aircrews of WWII were oblivious to the future interest in their jackets. But they did hold their jackets in high regard and wore them with pride. It's hard to do that today with green nomex or the cheap modern A-2s. It's sad that quality has degraded this much. The current A-2 is almost disregarded by the collector. "Officer" Dibley has the typical attitude of current airman that it's his ability to fly a military plane that makes aviation special. IMO it's a selfish and arrogant way of looking at aviation. You do not own aviation. You are a piece of the machine. By collecting flight jackets I celebrate history and American pride, not your personal selfish pride that you are a pilot.

 

[mezz07]

so why don't you trolls get off VLJ. You people won't find many here that hold your opinion.

 

[Silver Surfer]

whoa.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

This could be related to the horsehide resurgence (the original topic of this thread ).
http://iowapublicradio.org/post/horse-slaughter-iowa
_________________________________________________________________________
Tom

 

[FlyingYankee]

"The look is only important if you are a poseur"

I wear a Rolex Submariner and I don't dive. does this mean I am a James Bond poseur?

 

[grommet]

"The look is only important if you are a poseur"

I wear a Rolex Submariner and I don't dive. does this mean I am a James Bond poseur?

Yes.

 

[Dr H]

No, but the way that you order a Martini is the Litmus test...

 

[Vcruiser]

Just look on the LW site. There are many of the commandments listed. If you need further clarification just email the site commander(Stu)about how to act ..and what not to do.

 

[Phantomfixer]

The young aircrews of WWII were oblivious to the future interest in their jackets. But they did hold their jackets in high regard and wore them with pride. It's hard to do that today with green nomex or the cheap modern A-2s. It's sad that quality has degraded this much. The current A-2 is almost disregarded by the collector. "Officer" Dibley has the typical attitude of current airman that it's his ability to fly a military plane that makes aviation special. IMO it's a selfish and arrogant way of looking at aviation. You do not own aviation. You are a piece of the machine. By collecting flight jackets I celebrate history and American pride, not your personal selfish pride that you are a pilot.

I think the point Dibley is trying to make, you will be hard pressed to find an aircrew member who knows where is/her jacket is made, who made it, what type of hide, or how it drapes, is the sleeve length just right?? Most Military folks dont care too much about their gear as long as it is functional, comfortable, and relaible....they are too busy doing..not arrogant, just busy

I say this because as a retired crew chief, both on fighters and trash haulers (no disrespect)..the aircrew just could not get over my fascination with the flight jacket. The majority could care less about the "stats" of their jacket,,,on the flip side, very few of them would/will give up their leather jacket when they retire or seperate from the service. Yes they are proud of their A-2s, and I think 60 years from now, the current lot of A-2s will hold up better than the "originals" over the same time
frame...
As a crew chief on C-5s, I was issued flight gear, no leather mind you, just the green stuff....

 

[dmar836]

The assumption that a flyer believes he is superior in any way has absolutely nothing to do with jacket collecting... even if he does(and maybe he should). Feeling A-2 jacket collecting > flying is just as silly for the exact same reason IMO. The wearing of an A-2 jacket never enhanced a pilot's base skills then or now.
Buying into this would have us looking down at any WWII flyer who didn't know what A-2 contract they wore.
Obviously there is some passion about this.

 

[wheat1479]

I think it has to do with quality and craftsmanship.whether it s watches or jackets or shoes.Some people will buy clothes with just the name.Other s like the history and want their object to match the original.I like the a-2 jacket I own because of the way it looks.I have an Eastman and I have a cooper.I prefer the look and feel of the Eastman.

 

[Peter Graham]

Perhaps Officer Dibley should refer to the title of this forum and all that it implies. I'm sure there are forums that cater for discussion on current flight gear. You may be better off joining one of these.

 

[Officer Dibley]

Perhaps Officer Dibley should refer to the title of this forum and all that it implies. I'm sure there are forums that cater for discussion on current flight gear. You may be better off joining one of these.

It may come as a shock but this is not the only forum I belong to. But this one does have the largest per capita of posers and wannabees ! :lol: Some people really take this way too seriously. My point was the pre-occupation with the details of something that the real users could have cared less about. One group walk the walk, the others just talk ...... Never heard one of the Eagle drivers or RQS helo boys ask if they look good or authentic in their A-2's. Perhaps because their lives are not bereft of achievement and inadequacy . And that remark is not aimied at current or ex mil. I suspect most of those understand what I am trying to say. I hope so.