GoodWear Werber 1402P, Fantastic!!

[shanghai joe]

so what's point b) ??

Personally I enjoy seeing respectful amounts of public preening.

What was that Stuff Peter G was asking about the other day SJ?

OK so what's the difference between preening and sharing? :?




:lol:

 

[deeb7]

Personally I enjoy seeing respectful amounts of public preening.

Dunno Andrew, you still post those pictures with your head cut off.

We know what Australians look like, you know ...

And we're not scared of them.

 

[shanghai joe]

You guys gotta be kidding, right?!? A jacket showing that kind of wear after one week??? Sorry, but I'll gladly take the "sterile straightness" of my ELC Werber over a new jacket with the finish wearing away like that after a week. The finish on that jacket reminds me of those old Aero repros that wearers were complaining about the finish coming off on their shirt collars and car seats. I'm quite happy with my year old ELC Werber as it is starting to show honest wear after a year of good old use and abuse biking in snow and rain of a NYC winter.

Grant

roger that....

 

[shanghai joe]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even Rolex sometime made a mistake!





to err is human........ to forgive...........divine??


enjoy your gw !




forgive but do not forget......

 

[ties70]

to err is human........ to forgive...........divine??


forgive but do not forget......

Sometimes your posts sound like they come straight out of a fortune cookie....

Regards,

Ties

 

[Andrew]

how's things down under?

Pretty good from up here thanks, how's things down where you are?

 

[shanghai joe]

how's things down under?

Pretty good from up here thanks, how's things down where you are?

questing for the grail...........ooops this is the repro section

 

[Andrew]

Personally I enjoy seeing respectful amounts of public preening.

Dunno Andrew, you still post those pictures with your head cut off.

We know what Australians look like, you know ...

And we're not scared of them.

This isn't facebook Dave, it's all about the jacket.

You know what this harsh southern light is like, it's hard to get a picture where you don't look like you're in a constant foul mood and that's not me

 

[shanghai joe]

to err is human........ to forgive...........divine??


forgive but do not forget......

Sometimes your posts sound like they come straight out of a fortune cookie....

Regards,

Ties

I can't help it.........I'm Chinese......waht do you expect???? :roll:

That's the great thing about the forum......we can all take broadsides wthout ill-will!


number one son (literraly)........black sheep of the family(now that's not Confucius) :lol:

 

[Chandler]

Being a spray dye the loss is heavy early,

Every A-2 I have is spray-dyed and none have worn that fast or severely.

Any idea what John's doing differently? Lighter spray?

Chandler

 

[Chandler]

I've learned a bit about spray finishing, and have a hell of a lot more to learn.

Sorry, I should have read further...

Chandler

 

[airfrogusmc]

Heres a great reason that John shouldn't sell test jackets. Its only gonna come back to bite. Yeah someones getting a good deal but when other see it and don't know it was a test jacket they start pointing out the flaws. Maybe in the future John from a business stand point, it would be better to destroy all test jackets and not run the risk of damaging your reputation?

The pattern on that 42 Werber is awesome.

 

[shanghai joe]

Heres a great reason that John shouldn't sell test jackets. Its only gonna come back to bite. Yeah someones getting a good deal but when other see it and don't know it was a test jacket they start pointing out the flaws. Maybe in the future John from a business stand point, it would be better to destroy all test jackets and not run the risk of damaging your reputation?

The pattern on that 42 Werber is awesome.

Good point.........perhaps also the owner should say that's it's a proto-type?

 

[ties70]

Allen,

I personally do not think the problem is John selling test jackets but buyers not making clear that their jacket is not class A production grade and (as you mentioned) forum members who like to go after the possible flaws...

For me, having a pre-production is part of the fun:
It was cheaper than the final product, is nevertheless really great craftsmanship and I am pretty sure that John puts all his effort even into test jackets...why? Because he wants the final product to be as good as he can make it. And because he will be the one to test the prototypes.

For example, my NoName contract A-2 was one of the first jackets made, nevertheless John was satisfied enough with it to have veterans sign the lining. I made a review on the old VLJ and of course I stated the "pre-production" status.

Is John's personal standard high enough for the final product?
I am personally sure it is and most of the GW owners will be so, too.

Should his prototypes be compared with his final products or those of other makers? Definitely not!
His test jackets, IMHO they beat US Wings, Cooper, US-A, most of AERO or G&B anytime...that is their peer group, not the high end repros like FEW, RMNZ or the new ELC jackets...

I personally think selling the test jackets is a good business decision 'cause most of us who own a prototype will come back for a second (production) jacket. As John has only limited capacities I am kind of lucky that there are guys who do not get crazy about GW...shortens the waiting time

Regards,

Ties

 

[DiamondDave]

AH, I see now... it is all about what someone has paid????

First let me say that there was never any intended fraud in my listing of this great piece. Somehow the word "Test" (at least of the GW line) seems to have become some sort of 4 letter word. I believe this is fundamentally wrong thinking, I happen to like to be on the cutting edge of ANY creative endeavor and as such will buy these "tests" as long as they are available.

Second, for those of you who have never taken a risk and purchased a Test jacket, or have some idea that these are "bargain basement" items... they are by NO MEANS cheap! Yes there is a small discount. But it is an excellent way to own more than one of JC's great jackets without being murdered by your wife! As a matter of fact I have owned 6 of John's jackets and have had the opportunity to test almost all of his contracts and will still state unequivocally that these are fantastic works of art, period. This Werber is no exception it is an excellent repro of a little known or appreciated contract. I am also very fond of the Doniger contract for its graceful lines and elegant style.

Back to my initial observation, seeing that I have owned 6 of these jackets, albeit at a discount, can I really be labeled "cheapskate"?? seems unfair to me.

 

[shanghai joe]

AH, I see now... it is all about what someone has paid????

First let me say that there was never any intended fraud in my listing of this great piece. Somehow the word "Test" (at least of the GW line) seems to have become some sort of 4 letter word. I believe this is fundamentally wrong thinking, I happen to like to be on the cutting edge of ANY creative endeavor and as such will buy these "tests" as long as they are available.

Second, for those of you who have never taken a risk and purchased a Test jacket, or have some idea that these are "bargain basement" items... they are by NO MEANS cheap! Yes there is a small discount. But it is an excellent way to own more than one of JC's great jackets without being murdered by your wife! As a matter of fact I have owned 6 of John's jackets and have had the opportunity to test almost all of his contracts and will still state unequivocally that these are fantastic works of art, period. This Werber is no exception it is an excellent repro of a little known or appreciated contract. I am also very fond of the Doniger contract for its graceful lines and elegant style.

Back to my initial observation, seeing that I have owned 6 of these jackets, albeit at a discount, can I really be labeled "cheapskate"?? seems unfair to me.

DD ( initials as for Dare Devil, the marvel superhero)

Are you the same id as in ebay selling off GW?

No nobody (at least not me) should tag you a cheapo....oops I mean cheapskate.

I think protypes can be an investment in itself........think of the highly collectible watches....
maybe NOT now but sometime down the line when GW has lifted off into the stratosphere those protos will fetch a premium.

I think to some it's just like GW is the emperor's new clothes..that there can be no flaws.....perfection from a 42 box.

Perfection in an imperfect world? Waht was the reply to Jose'.......no way Jose

They're entitled to their opinion.......

and those as well who chose to differ.......they are not heretics, they shouldn't be joans of arcs (we all know what happened to poor Joan, nest'ce pas?)

That we shall hail only THE one and only emperor........

Please no guilt........blame it on mum, the ole lady but life's too short.



In Rome do as the romans do...............???
I think not. I spartacus

 

[airfrogusmc]

AH, I see now... it is all about what someone has paid????

First let me say that there was never any intended fraud in my listing of this great piece. Somehow the word "Test" (at least of the GW line) seems to have become some sort of 4 letter word. I believe this is fundamentally wrong thinking, I happen to like to be on the cutting edge of ANY creative endeavor and as such will buy these "tests" as long as they are available.

Second, for those of you who have never taken a risk and purchased a Test jacket, or have some idea that these are "bargain basement" items... they are by NO MEANS cheap! Yes there is a small discount. But it is an excellent way to own more than one of JC's great jackets without being murdered by your wife! As a matter of fact I have owned 6 of John's jackets and have had the opportunity to test almost all of his contracts and will still state unequivocally that these are fantastic works of art, period. This Werber is no exception it is an excellent repro of a little known or appreciated contract. I am also very fond of the Doniger contract for its graceful lines and elegant style.

Back to my initial observation, seeing that I have owned 6 of these jackets, albeit at a discount, can I really be labeled "cheapskate"?? seems unfair to me.

Has absolutely nothing to do with what one pays but everything to do with Johns reputation. We just saw it here. Those looking for fault in his jackets, other makers and other loyal maker followers won't say they're test jackets just point out the flaws. When those test jackets are out there and someone down the road buys one and may or may not know its a test it could be a reflection on the maker and when word of mouth is everything...Well I wouldn't be selling test jackets if it were me.

 

[Anonymous]

You guys gotta be kidding, right?!? A jacket showing that kind of wear after one week??? Sorry, but I'll gladly take the "sterile straightness" of my ELC Werber over a new jacket with the finish wearing away like that after a week. The finish on that jacket reminds me of those old Aero repros that wearers were complaining about the finish coming off on their shirt collars and car seats. I'm quite happy with my year old ELC Werber as it is starting to show honest wear after a year of good old use and abuse biking in snow and rain of a NYC winter.

Grant

There is a big difference between GW jackets and the Aeros with the big globules of finish coming off (also those HIDEOUS Eastmans with the light orange "ring around the collar")- on the GWs the horsehide is simply pigmented dye over peanut colored "raw" leather, in the Aeros and Eastmans the finish is sprayed over already-finished yellow leather. hence the topcoat doesn't really adhere to the leather like it did on WW2 jackets- it rubs off and looiks funny like on old Eastman 1401ps or it peels off like on the bad run of Aeros. John's jackets don't do that. As far as that "sterile staightness"- NEVER AGAIN for me thanks- you can wear one of those jackets 100 years "honestly" and it'll still like a boring Eastman. Sorry!

 

[Anonymous]

The 21996 I have on ebay now was worn almost every day for 6 months- it shows almost EXACTLY tyhe same wear as an original WW2 21996 I owned. Definitely not too much wear. Lost Worlds have a rep for being indestructible but when they DO satrt to wear you get that weird black stuff underneath- ditto some Eastmans I've owned only it's orange. The russet GW I have does show some pigment loss- but very similar to what I've seen on WW2 jackets and correctible with Lexol- in other words when conditioned some of the light areas go away. If you Lexol a Lost worlds or some Eastmans nothing happens- the finish inderneath the topcoat stays the same color. That plus all the other "corrections" and the unnatural sewing and the boring pattern and the exact shape on every jacket and...

 

[Grant]

That's funny you mentioned orange - that's exactly the color coming through in the photos posted! Anyhow, I'm a big fan of the GW Doniger I've seen in russet goatskin. As far as the horsehide GW jackets I've seen in the flesh and in photos - I see alot of room for improvement - and if anyone can do it - it's John. Just my opinion!

Throwing on my "boring" ELC and jumping on my bike.

Grant