Getting Back To Our Roots … The Rough Wear 23380.

[B-Man2]

By the process of elimination we can forget about the 16159 and 18091 contracts . They were the 1st and 2nd Rough Wear contracts and were made with M-39 Talon number 5 zips. The 3rd contract 1401-P and 4th contract 23380 came with M-41 Crown number 5 zips . The 5th and last contract the 27752 was made with a M-41 Talon zip.
So if your jacket has the original zipper it’s either a 1401-p or a 23480.
Cheers

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

I would guess 1401P because of the light russet and crown zipper. It baffles me why people are so adamant that the great escape jacket is a 16159 when it could easily be a redye 23380 with talon zipper or a 27752. Everyone quotes the pocket flaps being pointed but I've seen and owned original RWs with points to the pockets that weren't 16159s.

 

[mulceber]

I would guess 1401P because of the light russet and crown zipper. It baffles me why people are so adamant that the great escape jacket is a 16159 when it could easily be a redye 23380 with talon zipper or a 27752. Everyone quotes the pocket flaps being pointed but I've seen and owned original RWs with points to the pockets that weren't 16159s.

I think it's mostly because Gary Eastman reproduced it as a 16159, so everyone assumes he did that because he had some information we don't. But Gary also reproduced Ted Lawson's A-2 as a 23380 (very unlikely, as the contract was in production at the same time as the Doolittle raiders were training). I think when Gary sees an historic Rough Wear that he wants to copy, he just gives it a spec label from a contract he hasn't reproduced yet.

 

[caddyd]

After curious research I was thinking my Rough Wear might be a 1401-P but I was inspired by B-Mans fine pics of his original Rough Wear 23380 and his good point that the 23380 contract was mostly cowhide and mine is surely a cow and not a horse and a very close match in color and hide as his.

 

[Abyss]

Thank you for the very informative posts.

 

[Spitfireace]

At this stage I would just leave it alone. Changing a lining in an original has a some negative impacts on the jacket in terms of value , authenticity and the increased wear and tear of turning it inside out and sewing new holes in the hide when attaching the lining. It’s not a daily wearer so leaving in this condition is probably better for it in terms of care and preservation .

That's a beauty Burt, and no I would not touch the lining either. Unless it's completely shredded, or missing, the original lining is always more valuable. Around the neck area is typically worn out and maybe sweat stained, that's authentic, and replacement does not have that authenticity.

 

[Silver Surfer]

and......a nice original first contract rough wear 16159. a favorite occasional wearer. I will dig out a 1401 next week to post.

 

[Spitfireace]

OMG there you go.

 

[B-Man2]

View attachment 141955View attachment 141953View attachment 141959View attachment 141961View attachment 141957and......a nice original first contract rough wear 16159. a favorite occasional wearer. I will dig out a 1401 next week to post.

That’s another keeper for life !
What a beauty .
Thanks for posting it Vic .
Glad to see some originals being posted .
This one deserves its own thread .

 

[ludospeed]

View attachment 141955View attachment 141953View attachment 141959View attachment 141961View attachment 141957and......a nice original first contract rough wear 16159. a favorite occasional wearer. I will dig out a 1401 next week to post.

Beautiful hide.

 

[mulceber]

Incredible, Vic, just beautiful.

 

[Lorenzo_l]

Geez, another gem in Vic's stable. Thanks for sharing those pictures.

 

[Spitfireace]

View attachment 141955View attachment 141953View attachment 141959View attachment 141961View attachment 141957and......a nice original first contract rough wear 16159. a favorite occasional wearer. I will dig out a 1401 next week to post.

Buffalo head nickel.

 

[Silver Surfer]

you must remember this.....[as time goes by]- "Casablanca". members who have been around for a while have seen this one,, so its more for the newer crowd. Barnum was a captain in the 75th. all original except for liner repairs,, and quite wearable.

 

[Lorenzo_l]

Geez, Vic, what a gem. And with known provenance to a pilot of the 75 FS. And that patch and that blood chit!

 

[B-Man2]

Vic
That’s a real museum piece… awesome !!

 

[Abyss]

Amazing jackets, Silver Surfer!

 

[Lorenzo_l]

Part 1.
I have been meaning to post a few pictures of my original Poughkeepsie 28560 A-2, which I got from @Wz1999, and Burt's "Getting back to our roots" is a great thread to do that on.
For background info, this is an example of Poughkeepsie Leather Coat Co.'s only A-2 contract, for 50,000 jackets, awarded in May 1942.

The jacket was in pretty good shape when I received it, although the leather was a tad dry, so I gave it a light coat of leather treatment. it truly revided the colour of the hide. I am happy with the results:

The jacket is still strong yet very supple. A delight to wear, albeit only occasionally. One can notice the ghost stitching of a squadron patch on the top right front panel:

The nomenclature label. It's tagged as a 42 and it fits like one, slightly large on me (fit pics later):

There is what looks like a serial number written to the left of the label (58863) and another inscription below the label which has been covered in black marker/ink.

The gilt-plated M-41 Talon zipper works fine:

Details of the left and right collar hooks and ring snaps, showing the double-barrel eyelet for attaching the collar hook:

The epaulettes, clearly showing the ghost stitching of rank insignia:

The AAF meatball decal looks quite well for its age:

The underarm stitching, still going strong, and gussets:

 

[Lorenzo_l]

Part 2.

Left underarm stitching and gusset:

The knitted cuffs are replacements. The only parts not original to the jacket, as far as I am aware:

The liner, a pale shade of tan, is in remarkably good condition, with only minor fraying in the neck area:

The back panel:

And a fit pic:

 

[B-Man2]

Part 2.

Left underarm stitching and gusset:
View attachment 142797

The knitted cuffs are replacements. The only parts not original to the jacket, as far as I am aware:






View attachment 142799


The liner, a pale shade of tan, is in remarkably good condition, with only minor fraying in the neck area:
View attachment 142803

The back panel:
View attachment 142805

And a fit pic:
View attachment 142807

Outstanding post Lorenzo .
This jacket really needs to have its own thread, as it would be easier to locate in the future if anyone would like to use it for informational purposes. Check with Jan maybe he can make that happen or consider posting it again under its own title . Original Poughkeepsie reviews are kind of rare .