Further proof that there are very few rules when it comes to zippers...

[mulceber]

If that's not the case, then I've no idea why they blackened the zippers. Saying "oh, they just wanted as many zippers as they could find" doesn't answer the question, because Talon had to go through an extra step to blacken those zippers. And it's a step that the Navy, for their part, apparently thought was REALLY important, because after the M-422A, we don't see any more shiny zippers on Navy flight jackets. Whatever the reason for blackening the zippers, I suspect the Navy and the Air Force wanted it done for similar reasons, but the Navy was more insistent.

 

[Smithy]

If that's not the case, then I've no idea why they blackened the zippers. Saying "oh, they just wanted as many zippers as they could find" doesn't answer the question, because Talon had to go through an extra step to blacken those zippers. And it's a step that the Navy, for their part, apparently thought was REALLY important, because after the M-422A, we don't see any more shiny zippers. Whatever the reason for blackening the zippers, I suspect the Navy and the Air Force wanted it done for similar reasons, but the Navy was more insistent.

I think the colour was of little importance Jan.

Electroplating is mostly used to protect against abrasion and corrosion. It doesn't surprise me that the Navy would pursue it more than the Army for the simple fact due to jackets being in an environment which was more corrosive - salt water.

 

[mulceber]

Possible, but I'm skeptical: nickel doesn't corrode quickly (witness the fact that the Talon zips on Navy jackets, even the shiny ones on M-422As, are still functioning 80 years later). Neither branch much cared if the jacket was still functioning a couple decades down the road. They just needed it to work for the duration of the war.

 

[Smithy]

Possible, but I'm skeptical: nickel doesn't corrode quickly (witness the fact that the Talon zips on Navy jackets, even the shiny ones on M-422As, are still functioning 80 years later). Neither branch much cared if the jacket was still functioning a couple decades down the road. They just needed it to work for the duration of the war.

You can be skeptical but I'd bet my house on the fact that the reason why the Navy was more interested in zippers having a coating was to protect against salt corrosion.

I sail and have sailed my whole life and I can tell you that salt water will quickly corrode anything reactive in short order.

The Navy probably wanted this because they knew that it's better to have something metallic treated to prevent the likelihood of corrosion in a salt water environment.

 

[Dany McDonald]

I don't think they thought that in the future jacket collectors would be picking apart the slightest details of these jackets.

Shit no and bet ya we would have a mental illness for answers....

Still I enjoy first hand accounts about the process and some like John Chapman has a lot of insights about every aspect concerning A-2's anomalies.

D

 

[entertainment]

Talon sales rep: I'm sorry but we only have blackened zips in stock at the moment. I'll give you a good deal.
QM: I guess those will have to do.

 

[Dany McDonald]

The Navy probably wanted this because they knew that it's better to have something metallic treated to prevent the likelihood of corrosion in a salt water environment.

Without the initial spec/directive, that argument is hard to circumvent!

I don't think the manufacturer was supplying the zippers - I think the government supplied them. If so there was a warehouse somewhere in 1942 with millions of zippers (and who knows what else), and whenever a jacket manufacturer won a contract, enough zippers to fill the contract (maybe with a few left over) would be sent to the jacket manufacturer.

Of course the material was supplied by the gouv, that's a written fact, but supply chains can run dry and especially in war time and for many reasons. Still some zips, supposed to be stocked in vast quantities were not always found on specific jackets of specific makers. Without the paper or first hand accounts we can guess. And like you said, Eastman book is a work in progress with flaws and errors.



Dany

 

[mulceber]

Thinking more about it, Tim, your explanation for the Navy makes a lot of sense - it's also probably why their jackets have had button closures on the pockets from the very beginning, even when snaps are more practical. No idea whether that was also the Air Force's reason for trying blackened zips, only to decide they didn't care.

 

[ZuZu]

If that's not the case, then I've no idea why they blackened the zippers. Saying "oh, they just wanted as many zippers as they could find" doesn't answer the question, because Talon had to go through an extra step to blacken those zippers. And it's a step that the Navy, for their part, apparently thought was REALLY important, because after the M-422A, we don't see any more shiny zippers on Navy flight jackets. Whatever the reason for blackening the zippers, I suspect the Navy and the Air Force wanted it done for similar reasons, but the Navy was more insistent.

Whatchutalkenabou' Willis? The Navy made MANY jackets after the M422a with shiny zippers! Some 55j14s and many 7823s have shiny zippers- culminating in the Dubow 7823 with it's bright shiny zipper which was emphasized by having no little side flaps over it:

 

[ZuZu]

I would guess- (because that's what we're doing-eh?) that aesthetics is just as likely to have played a role. They wanted a uniform look and not a dorky shiny zipper.

 

[blackrat2]

I’ve posted this pic up before
A Crown on a Poughkeepsie, I can’t tell if it’s original or a replacement but the jacket certainly has had a dye job so has either been fitted from new or replaced at some point

 

[ZuZu]

Look at it!

 

[Spitfireace]

Yes! Thank you.

The blackening didn't last very well, apparently. I'm not sure why they bothered painting the zipper box brown when they were just going to electroplate the whole thing anyway

Can you electroplate zinc? I don't think so. Stopper boxes are made of zinc usually. Doesn't electroplate.

 

[Spitfireace]

Zinc is an electroplate. Doesn't corrode easily.