Comparing chrome and vegetable tanned leather characteristic

[bfrench]

Hi, Folks,

When deciding to pick a jacket made from chrome or vegetable tanned leather, one of the characteristics I've heard is that chrome tanned leather repels water and vegetable tanned has a tendency to soak up water as wearing the jacket in a rain storm.

Is there any truth to this or is the most important factor the type of final paint the tanner uses to give the leather it's final colour?

Bill French

 

[deeb7]

Bill, there are waterproof coatings that can be applied, and if it is a concern, you can always stick with goatskin.

And then there's combination vegetable/chrome tanning.

Here's what I found on leather-directory.com ...

Vegetable-tanned leather is tanned with tannins and other natural reagents found in vegetable matter, tree bark, and other sources. It is brown in color with the specific shade depending on the relative chemical mixture and the underlying color of the hide. Vegetable-tanned leather is unstable in water. Water will discolor it, and if left to soak and dry it shrinks becoming less supple and virtually brittle. Hot water will shrink it drastically making the leather rigid and eventually brittle. Boiled leather is where the leather is purposely hardened by being immersed in hot water, wax or similar hot liquids. Historically, 'boiled leather' was used in armor (also book binders) since it was hard yet light weight. For leather carving or stamping, this is definitely the leather to use.

Chrome-tanned leather, invented in the 19th century, is tanned with chromium sulfate and chromium salts. It is more supple and pliable than vegetable-tanned leather, and reacts much better with water since it will tend not to discolor. A greater range of colors is also possible with chrome based leathers.

 

[bfrench]

Bill, there are waterproof coatings that can be applied, and if it is a concern, you can always stick with goatskin.

And then there's combination vegetable/chrome tanning.

Here's what I found on leather-directory.com ...

Vegetable-tanned leather is tanned with tannins and other natural reagents found in vegetable matter, tree bark, and other sources. It is brown in color with the specific shade depending on the relative chemical mixture and the underlying color of the hide. Vegetable-tanned leather is unstable in water. Water will discolor it, and if left to soak and dry it shrinks becoming less supple and virtually brittle. Hot water will shrink it drastically making the leather rigid and eventually brittle. Boiled leather is where the leather is purposely hardened by being immersed in hot water, wax or similar hot liquids. Historically, 'boiled leather' was used in armor (also book binders) since it was hard yet light weight. For leather carving or stamping, this is definitely the leather to use.

Chrome-tanned leather, invented in the 19th century, is tanned with chromium sulfate and chromium salts. It is more supple and pliable than vegetable-tanned leather, and reacts much better with water since it will tend not to discolor. A greater range of colors is also possible with chrome based leathers.

Hi, David,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm assuming from the info above that they are talking about unfinished leather or maybe a leather with just a pure aniline dye. Probably any of the semi-aniline finishes would also be water repellent to a certain degree - I'm just referring to the occasional dampness from a rain shower and not immersing in washing machine for a water treatment.

Bill French

 

[deeb7]

Hi Bill .... I don't think you would have problems with either choice.

Here's the website that I quoted from, if you want to check it out ....

http://www.leather-directory.com/

 

[John Lever]

The original methods used to tan leather were very polluting. In London, street urchins were used to collect ' the pure ', dog sh*t, from the streets to take to the tanneries where it was mixed with urine and other ingredients to tan leather. Today, Inuit communities still use Elk brains in the curing process.
In WW1 the leather boots were veg. tanned and so rotted because of water damage. This could partly explain the increased usage of chrome tanned leather in later conflicts.

 

[Falcon_52]

I think it comes down to the finish applied to the leather not necessarily chrome vs. vegetable tanning. My Lost Worlds jacket (chrome tanned) is very water proof except in the places where the thick top coating has worn through. My Buzz Rickson's jacket (veg. tanned) is more water resistant than waterproof - the water will bead to a certain point and then it begins to penetrate.

Noel

 

[Chandler]

I think it comes down to the finish applied to the leather not necessarily chrome vs. vegetable tanning.

That was always my understanding too -- aniline finished leather always seems to soak up water (much to a wearer's horror) and laquer (can't recall the correct term for the other finishing process) will readily repel.

To Chrome and Vegetable tanning; it always seems that chrome tanning will really soften a hide. I have 2 goatskin jackets from Flights Suits, one veg tanned the other chrome, and you can really feel the difference in the plyability of the leathers.

Chandler

 

[stubbyeighth]

Vegetable-tanned leather is unstable in water. Water will discolor it, and if left to soak and dry it shrinks becoming less supple and virtually brittle. Hot water will shrink it drastically making the leather rigid and eventually brittle.

Wow. That is interesting--and confusing.

I've read so many posts about the "hot water treatment" being used to stretch and loosen armholes, to "relax" the leather, etc. From this post, it sounds like the hwt could have just the opposite effect, especially on a veg-tanned jacket. Has anyone experienced this?

__________________

stubbyeighth

 

[Chandler]

I've read so many posts about the "hot water treatment" being used to stretch and loosen armholes, to "relax" the leather, etc. From this post, it sounds like the hwt could have just the opposite effect, especially on a veg-tanned jacket. Has anyone experienced this?

I'd believe that the majority of the high-end, WW2 A-2 repros are vegetable tanned. I don't think any original contracts were chrome tanned. Might be wrong, but I don't believe it was as widely used back then.

So in answer to your question, I think the treatment has probably been done on veg-tanned jackets, probably near to exclusively.

Chandler

 

[zoomer]

The original methods used to tan leather were very polluting. In London, street urchins were used to collect ' the pure ', dog sh*t, from the streets to take to the tanneries where it was mixed with urine and other ingredients to tan leather.

Is this perhaps where we get the descriptive term "sh!t brindle brown"?

 

[Jason]

I've read so many posts about the "hot water treatment" being used to stretch and loosen armholes, to "relax" the leather, etc. From this post, it sounds like the hwt could have just the opposite effect, especially on a veg-tanned jacket. Has anyone experienced this?

__________________

stubbyeighth

Perhaps its all in the 'severity' of treatment. We're just talking hot water of about 50-60 degrees Celcius here, and only for a short time.

I'm sure that boiling water (100 degrees C), with full immersion over a period of perhaps half an hour or more would be enough to strip out any of the lubricating oils between leather fibres at a microscopic level and have the effects of making the leather tough and brittle.