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Best M422 repro ?
- Thread starter philippe
- Start date
Shropshire-lad
Well-Known Member
have owned both Eastman and currently have an Aero. The only difference between regarding quality is the price….Aero wins hands down. Also customer service with Aero was very helpful and efficient. I didn’t have much or any cause to contact Eastman regarding the jackets, so cannot comment on theirs but when I have rung them on various points they have also been very good.
My point of view would be this: If I had spent Eastman sized cash I would be probably be too precious when wearing it and so not get full and proper use out of it….there again, if I could afford it - well, who knows! For me - it was price and quality and to my eye the quality is very similar.
Hope this helps.
My point of view would be this: If I had spent Eastman sized cash I would be probably be too precious when wearing it and so not get full and proper use out of it….there again, if I could afford it - well, who knows! For me - it was price and quality and to my eye the quality is very similar.
Hope this helps.
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
John Chapman of Goodwear - scroll down to see pics of his M-422a's https://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/
Dave Sheeley (a USN jacket master) He does rebuilds and new builds - contact on this forum as Maverickson, also sometimes has jackets on Ebay.
Headwind Mfg (www.headwindmfg.com) is currently launching a Church M-422a, see below, that looks amazing! Definitely check them out (message Jay, aka Skyhawk here on the forum)
See https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...rch-m422a-reproduction-headwind-mfg-co.26436/
I owned one of their HL Block M-422as, it was a high quality jacket, but didn't fit unfortunately. Nahua (on this forum) has an amazing W&G M-422 from them.
ELC (Eastman) make a damn good M-422a, top quality and workmanship and like Aero, great customer service. See pic below.
Bill Kelso makes two versions and both look insane. Beware, price increase in July
AVI LTHR - If you want decent accuracy at a more reasonable price point, contact www.avileather.com They have a G&F M-422a they have copied from their original, coming out soon.
Their 55J14 G-1s are excellent, as a few on the forum, incl myself, will attest.
AVI has one of the best purchase policys around, makes it too easy to throw money at them.
Cockpit USA's 100 Mission G-1 is actually based off an M-422a (actually has M-422a on the label) These jackets are awesome, Ive owned a few.
Not technically accurate as far as some details go, but a well-built and practical jacket, that fits well and looks cool. If you can get one on sale...
cockpitusa.com
Gibson & Barnes used to make a very nice M-422a, but no longer. Possible to find secondhand sometimes... Beware, weird sizing....
It depends what you are after, where in the world you are, and what your budget is... How much accuracy, detail do you want or just an M-422a-esque jacket that you can wear and enjoy!
Some pics
Headwind Church M-422a protype with the unique blonde collar
ELC M-422a with AVG leather blood chit from Sean Collins
AVI LTHR's original GF M-422a, soon to be release ????
Dave Sheeley (a USN jacket master) He does rebuilds and new builds - contact on this forum as Maverickson, also sometimes has jackets on Ebay.
Headwind Mfg (www.headwindmfg.com) is currently launching a Church M-422a, see below, that looks amazing! Definitely check them out (message Jay, aka Skyhawk here on the forum)
See https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...rch-m422a-reproduction-headwind-mfg-co.26436/
I owned one of their HL Block M-422as, it was a high quality jacket, but didn't fit unfortunately. Nahua (on this forum) has an amazing W&G M-422 from them.
ELC (Eastman) make a damn good M-422a, top quality and workmanship and like Aero, great customer service. See pic below.
Bill Kelso makes two versions and both look insane. Beware, price increase in July
AVI LTHR - If you want decent accuracy at a more reasonable price point, contact www.avileather.com They have a G&F M-422a they have copied from their original, coming out soon.
Their 55J14 G-1s are excellent, as a few on the forum, incl myself, will attest.
AVI has one of the best purchase policys around, makes it too easy to throw money at them.
Cockpit USA's 100 Mission G-1 is actually based off an M-422a (actually has M-422a on the label) These jackets are awesome, Ive owned a few.
Not technically accurate as far as some details go, but a well-built and practical jacket, that fits well and looks cool. If you can get one on sale...
Vintage G1 Jacket | Goatskin Flight Jacket | Cockpit USA
Made with hand treated goatskin leather, the Vintage G1 Jacket from Cockpit USA features an antique look. Order this naval aviator's jacket today!
Gibson & Barnes used to make a very nice M-422a, but no longer. Possible to find secondhand sometimes... Beware, weird sizing....
It depends what you are after, where in the world you are, and what your budget is... How much accuracy, detail do you want or just an M-422a-esque jacket that you can wear and enjoy!
Some pics
Headwind Church M-422a protype with the unique blonde collar
ELC M-422a with AVG leather blood chit from Sean Collins
AVI LTHR's original GF M-422a, soon to be release ????
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
Btw, I've placed an order for the Headwind Church myself.
mulceber
Moderator
Lots of great answers here. My question is, when you ask about an M-422, do you mean all jackets in that line (so, including the M-422a), or just the original that saw so much use in the AVG. If the latter, your options are a lot more limited and expensive: John Chapman of Good Wear, Dave Sheeley, Bill Kelso.
johnwayne
Well-Known Member
I did own an Aero M422a some years ago and its only ‘fault’ was the leather was in the thick/heavy side so never really got worn in or softened before moving it on, to be replaced by two 50’s original G1’s because they differ very little from M422/a’s that proved hard to find in my size at a reasonable cost!
Re Headwinds Church Repro, why the massive pocket flaps?
Re Headwinds Church Repro, why the massive pocket flaps?
ties70
Well-Known Member
John Chapman of Goodwear - scroll down to see pics of his M-422a's https://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/
Dave Sheeley (a USN jacket master) He does rebuilds and new builds - contact on this forum as Maverickson, also sometimes has jackets on Ebay.
Headwind Mfg (www.headwindmfg.com) is currently launching a Church M-422a, see below, that looks amazing! Definitely check them out (message Jay, aka Skyhawk here on the forum)
See https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...rch-m422a-reproduction-headwind-mfg-co.26436/
I owned one of their HL Block M-422as, it was a high quality jacket, but didn't fit unfortunately. Nahua (on this forum) has an amazing W&G M-422 from them.
ELC (Eastman) make a damn good M-422a, top quality and workmanship and like Aero, great customer service. See pic below.
Bill Kelso makes two versions and both look insane. Beware, price increase in July
AVI LTHR - If you want decent accuracy at a more reasonable price point, contact www.avileather.com They have a G&F M-422a they have copied from their original, coming out soon.
Their 55J14 G-1s are excellent, as a few on the forum, incl myself, will attest.
AVI has one of the best purchase policys around, makes it too easy to throw money at them.
Cockpit USA's 100 Mission G-1 is actually based off an M-422a (actually has M-422a on the label) These jackets are awesome, Ive owned a few.
Not technically accurate as far as some details go, but a well-built and practical jacket, that fits well and looks cool. If you can get one on sale...
Vintage G1 Jacket | Goatskin Flight Jacket | Cockpit USA
Made with hand treated goatskin leather, the Vintage G1 Jacket from Cockpit USA features an antique look. Order this naval aviator's jacket today!
Gibson & Barnes used to make a very nice M-422a, but no longer. Possible to find secondhand sometimes... Beware, weird sizing....
It depends what you are after, where in the world you are, and what your budget is... How much accuracy, detail do you want or just an M-422a-esque jacket that you can wear and enjoy!
Some pics
Headwind Church M-422a protype with the unique blonde collar
View attachment 63122
ELC M-422a with AVG leather blood chit from Sean Collins
View attachment 63121
AVI LTHR's original GF M-422a, soon to be release ????
View attachment 63123
Brett,
do you have any information, if AVI will bring out their M-422a with a more authentic label?
Their new G-1, for example, does not look bad at all, but the cheap looking label really looks more like "Sporty's Pilot Shop" than like "we are aiming for the next level"...
Ties
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
Ties, I have no idea...
All I know is that every so often Ill send an email asking about developments etc... Ive sent a few return emails offering suggestions over the years.
Appears and seems they've taken some of the feedback into account.
I think this is a common issue with the more budget makers... They put a lot of effort into getting some elements right, but then ignore other things.
Perhaps its cost, perhaps its other reasons..
All I know is that every so often Ill send an email asking about developments etc... Ive sent a few return emails offering suggestions over the years.
Appears and seems they've taken some of the feedback into account.
I think this is a common issue with the more budget makers... They put a lot of effort into getting some elements right, but then ignore other things.
Perhaps its cost, perhaps its other reasons..
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
I think Jay answered this question in his Church thread - https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...22a-reproduction-headwind-mfg-co.26436/page-2
I am to be corrected, but if I recall it was said that the pockets did not change size, along with different sizes of the patterns.
So a pocket may look larger on a smaller size, and smaller on a larger size... Seems to be a quirk of this contract perhaps.
I was looking at these two originals John was selling a while back.
Good Wear Leather Coat Company — Sale Original Edmund T. Church M-422A Jacket
www.goodwearleather.com
Good Wear Leather Coat Company — Sale Edmund T. Church M-422A Flight Jacket
www.goodwearleather.com
ties70
Well-Known Member
Thanks Brett,
if you see the average speed, in which our friends from Pakistan are able to come up with convincing military inspired and sometimes even "really close to original makers" labels, for a currently ever growing number of jacket models, I somehow doubt that it's a cost factor...or at least not to such extent that it's reflected in the price of these jackets.
If it is for legal reasons, then there would still be the chance to come up with a "house copy". You could even use the owners name for this:
JACKETS, INTERMEDIATE
BUAERO.-U.S. NAVY
SPECIFICATION M - 422 A
MORTEN & ANDREASON CO.
CONTRACT NO. NXs 416
Of course, a label does not make a contract, but it's the obvious sign which historically correct jacket you were aiming for...and I sometimes wonder why they do not go for these easy points.BUAERO.-U.S. NAVY
SPECIFICATION M - 422 A
MORTEN & ANDREASON CO.
CONTRACT NO. NXs 416
What would the majority here think:
"All the contract details are correct, so I couldn't care less about the label..."
"All the other contract details are correct, so why did they stop at the label...?"
"If they can't get the label correctly, are the other details right...?"
....
Ties
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
I agree Ties, totally.
My feeling is, legal reasons aside.... that if you put in the effort to get some elements/ detailing correct as possible, within your budget and ability... then follow through with all aspects of the jacket.
Seems a bit pointless to have the 'correct' repro zipper, knits and hardware and then have some random label. Just doesn't make sense.
Unless you want to take an original Bronco for example, copy it and make a 'house-brand' jacket from it... But again.... why?
If you have an original Bronco, make the effort to copy it as best you can, paying attention to the details, label and all... and call it a Bronco.
I have a feeling that they are working on labels, but if they will be copies of the original jacket's labels or their own brand (as you visualised above), I have no idea.
It will be interesting to see how these jacket turn out.
My feeling is, legal reasons aside.... that if you put in the effort to get some elements/ detailing correct as possible, within your budget and ability... then follow through with all aspects of the jacket.
Seems a bit pointless to have the 'correct' repro zipper, knits and hardware and then have some random label. Just doesn't make sense.
Unless you want to take an original Bronco for example, copy it and make a 'house-brand' jacket from it... But again.... why?
If you have an original Bronco, make the effort to copy it as best you can, paying attention to the details, label and all... and call it a Bronco.
I have a feeling that they are working on labels, but if they will be copies of the original jacket's labels or their own brand (as you visualised above), I have no idea.
It will be interesting to see how these jacket turn out.
pierregloom
Well-Known Member
I'm also in search for an M422-A repro (that will may be my first "accurate" ww2 jacket !), and AVI sent me a few days ago a picture of their upcoming jacket showing the label (I was asking if the color of the leather will be lighter than their G1).
It seems that they have made an "house copy" like @ties70 was saying. What do you think of it? I haven't got all your knowledge yet.
I was also told :
I was like a kid to whom was just revealed a big secret, and since then I've been excited to see more.
It seems that the picture they sent me is a close up of another posted by @Brettafett , but I'm not sure...
As a newbie in the hobby, I may have missed details.
It seems that they have made an "house copy" like @ties70 was saying. What do you think of it? I haven't got all your knowledge yet.
I was also told :
I was like a kid to whom was just revealed a big secret, and since then I've been excited to see more.
It seems that the picture they sent me is a close up of another posted by @Brettafett , but I'm not sure...
As a newbie in the hobby, I may have missed details.
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Brettafett
Well-Known Member
Personally, Im really excited about this jacket.
Not expecting GW, Dave Sheeley or BK, but based on my 55J14, Im expecting a decent jacket.
Im not too concerned about the label not being an repro of the original G&F label (if it was me, Id have done that)
Other makers have copied original jackets and placed a generic label. ELCs done that before.
Anyway, Ill definitely get one and let everyone know.
What I can say is that I love my goat Bronco, the goat on that is really good. Its slightly lighter in weight and colour, compared to the 55J14
(Not sure if this will be the same).
The lining looks pretty close to a number of pics I have of original G&F M-422As, I love AVIs mouton. My 55J14 was better than that used on my ELC jackets. Period.
I was also told the knits would be authentic colour and weave. So, let see.
Not expecting GW, Dave Sheeley or BK, but based on my 55J14, Im expecting a decent jacket.
Im not too concerned about the label not being an repro of the original G&F label (if it was me, Id have done that)
Other makers have copied original jackets and placed a generic label. ELCs done that before.
Anyway, Ill definitely get one and let everyone know.
What I can say is that I love my goat Bronco, the goat on that is really good. Its slightly lighter in weight and colour, compared to the 55J14
(Not sure if this will be the same).
The lining looks pretty close to a number of pics I have of original G&F M-422As, I love AVIs mouton. My 55J14 was better than that used on my ELC jackets. Period.
I was also told the knits would be authentic colour and weave. So, let see.
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B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Brett
You’ve been through a few of them … so if anyone has the knowledge and is qualified to let us know the good, the bad, and the ugly about a makers 422A jackets, I’d definitely go with your review of them .
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
Thanks Burt,
Yes had a few, certainly not as many as some... Not that anyones counting.
Wish Id had someone to bounce ideas off when I first started looking at these jackets.
Happy to share some ideas and opinions... Enjoy reading those of others.
Yes had a few, certainly not as many as some... Not that anyones counting.
Wish Id had someone to bounce ideas off when I first started looking at these jackets.
Happy to share some ideas and opinions... Enjoy reading those of others.
mulceber
Moderator
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
'Aint that the truth.
A few months back I was considering backing off on new jackets (a recent bad experience didn't help...)
But then you know, one finds oneself curious again...
A few months back I was considering backing off on new jackets (a recent bad experience didn't help...)
But then you know, one finds oneself curious again...
pierregloom
Well-Known Member
I have a little question about the "intermediate jacket" category.
Is this just the mouton collar that make it warmer than an A2?
I mean I think I've understood what are the major visual differences between an A2 and M422 or G1, but were there other special "hidden" features such as a thicker lining or something else?
Is this just the mouton collar that make it warmer than an A2?
I mean I think I've understood what are the major visual differences between an A2 and M422 or G1, but were there other special "hidden" features such as a thicker lining or something else?
