B-15 rescued from the trash

[NickG]

Here's my B-15, rescued from the trash! (for free!)
A friend of mine, who knows I collect this kind of stuff, pulled this B-15 + gloves
from the trash can recently! Almost got thrown out with the garbage!
Its really nice with military contract label in place still, but no sleeve decal...

 

[NickG]

Here's what the tag reads:
Jacket,Intermediate, Flying
Type B-15
Specification No CNNG1872FS (or something close)
Order N0 55-7283
Army Airforces type
(no maker name indicated...)

Is this correct for a period piece?
Also it appears that the zipper is centered like a B-10?
and the pocket snaps are not blank (not undecorated...) see photo...
its a pebbled decorated type snap...???
Zipper is Talon brand brass with paperclip type pull...

Thoughts?

 

[watchmanjimg]

Looks like a private-purchase variant. Some of the guys know a lot about these, so hopefully they'll weigh in. Label, heavier-gauge Talon zipper, and knits all suggest that it's not GI-issue. Not a bad deal for the price, though.

 

[TankBuster]

Jim is correct. This is not a real WWII issued B-15, but a post war civilian type. Still good to kick around in, and it looks to be in pretty good shape for a trash can find.

 

[fishmeok]

EXCELLENT FIND! I can't believe the stuff some people throw away...
Cheers
Mark

 

[NickG]

Looks like a private-purchase variant. Some of the guys know a lot about these, so hopefully they'll weigh in. Label, heavier-gauge Talon zipper, and knits all suggest that it's not GI-issue. Not a bad deal for the price, though.

Yeah after closer inspection all these anomalies tell me its not a USAAF contract piece after all...no sleeve decal, different knit pattern, zipper (heavy duty type Talon) is positioned dead center, snaps with decoration but here's the puzzling thing;
the tag looks totally military with a contract number and you would not expect that on an old civilian jacket...that's what's so weird...

On a modern repro you would see such a tag but this jacket is old and the mouton fur is very brittle... Perhaps a war time private purchase coat...or early post war knock-off?
I think a dead center zipper is more comfortable actually. I have a modern repro B-15A to compare this one with... its really more like a B-10!

 

[deeb7]

... but here's the puzzling thing;
the tag looks totally military with a contract number and you would not expect that on an old civilian jacket...that's what's so weird...

The fake contract labels were commonplace, even back then, the correct Order No. is 44-6***. The giveaway is Army Airforces type replacing the maker ... it seems to be almost code for knock off.

The quality varied, so not all of them are bad. It may well be a nice jacket, but if you wear it, watch out for Peter Graham ... he is known to chase them away with a stick.

 

[NickG]

... but here's the puzzling thing;
the tag looks totally military with a contract number and you would not expect that on an old civilian jacket...that's what's so weird...

The fake contract labels were commonplace, even back then, the correct Order No. is 44-6***. The giveaway is Army Airforces type replacing the maker ... it seems to be almost code for knock off.

The quality varied, so not all of them are bad. It may well be a nice jacket, but if you wear it, watch out for Peter Graham ... he is known to chase them away with a stick.

Thanks for clearing that up, so they were creating "military contract like" dpec tags way back in the 40's-50's-60's. Interesting, I always suspected that to be something more recent because of the reenactors and repro market (Japan etc...) demand...

So the fake 55-7283 (made up#) code might be civi 1955?

 

[deeb7]

So the fake 55-7283 (made up#) code might be civi 1955?

Quite possibly, that's about the age of it, or else it's just in sequence to appear correct.

Original labels also have Specification No. 3220.

 

[dujardin]

what a good surprise,
free is really not expensive :lol:
good friend you have , many guys just take the place her on ebay to make money

byeeeeeeee marcel

 

[NickG]

So the fake 55-7283 (made up#) code might be civi 1955?

Quite possibly, that's about the age of it, or else it's just in sequence to appear correct.

Original labels also have Specification No. 3220.

Well the No.3220 part in indeed missing on the tag.
The Specification number on the label shows the code Specification number 1872FS or something close to that!...The tag is fraying a little...like I wrote earlier.
The jacket in the below link (which sold a while back) appears to have that very same code and text as well... and appears to be another odd B15 also with a center mounted B10 style zipper...but different zipper brand, different color mouton...
Was that one even real?? It had an Army Airforces sleeve decal even...

More images in link BELOW....

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1153&p=11428&hilit=B15A&sid=d14862ff3a1ef5ddc54c2d65d371917b#p11428

 

[deeb7]

Was that one even real?? It had an Army Airforces sleeve decal even...

No, that one is also a 1950's civilian market jacket ... and Paddy tells us that in his post.

Same maker huh?

 

[NickG]

Was that one even real?? It had an Army Airforces sleeve decal even...

No, that one is also a 1950's civilian market jacket ... and Paddy tells us that in his post.

Same maker huh?

Yep appears to be from that source as the tag codes (if these are made up) are the same...
but its not an identical jacket...besides the collar color difference, the zipper is not a heavy duty Talon...and mine lacks the sleeve decal and the knits on this one look more military...
Perhaps mine is an older (less accurately cloned) copy? Would something like this have been used still in the military (or CAP) as a privately procured flight jacket?

 

[deeb7]

... Would something like this have been used still in the military (or CAP) as a privately procured flight jacket?

No, it's unlikely ... just give it a good home, and enjoy it for what it is.

 

[watchmanjimg]

... Would something like this have been used still in the military (or CAP) as a privately procured flight jacket?

No, it's unlikely ... just give it a good home, and enjoy it for what it is.

Perhaps not as a flight jacket, David, but believe it or not I have the remnants of one of these that was worn during the 1950s and possibly into the 1960s by a US Army armor officer. Evidence of removed tapes and unit patch are visible on close inspection, and I've seen original pictures of him wearing it on duty. It has a knit collar and the B-15 "Army Air Forces Type" inscription on the label. The "tanker jackets" that were so popular during this period (depicted on Page 3 of Stanton's US Army Uniforms of the Cold War and discussed on Pages 233 and 235) were never an issue item. In the early days of the Cold War there was a strong emphasis on tailored clothing and plenty of unit discretion as to uniform standards, so troops commonly purchased such garments.

 

[TankBuster]

Was that one even real?? It had an Army Airforces sleeve decal even...

No, that one is also a 1950's civilian market jacket ... and Paddy tells us that in his post.

Same maker huh?

Yep appears to be from that source as the tag codes (if these are made up) are the same...
but its not an identical jacket...besides the collar color difference, the zipper is not a heavy duty Talon...and mine lacks the sleeve decal and the knits on this one look more military...
Perhaps mine is an older (less accurately cloned) copy? Would something like this have been used still in the military (or CAP) as a privately procured flight jacket?

David is right, the odds of your jacket being worn in the military is extremely unlikely. It is commonplace to go into used and secondhand clothing stores here in MN and find many jackets like/similar to this one. The civilian market really bought these jackets up back in the 50's and 60's.

 

[NickG]

... Would something like this have been used still in the military (or CAP) as a privately procured flight jacket?

No, it's unlikely ... just give it a good home, and enjoy it for what it is.

Here's a (dead center zipper) civilian B15 in "service" use if you count CAP!
Not really military...auxiliary service...still a neat image (from the photo section)
Its not a B10, no external patch pockets! Note also patch of some sort on right sleeve!

 

[Peter Graham]

It may well be a nice jacket, but if you wear it, watch out for Peter Graham ... he is known to chase them away with a stick.

I had a bad experience with one and it's scarred me for life. Seriously though, more than half of the B-15's advertised for sale as genuine are postwar copies. It's really easy to spot them. Just do a little research.

 

[NickG]

It may well be a nice jacket, but if you wear it, watch out for Peter Graham ... he is known to chase them away with a stick.

I had a bad experience with one and it's scarred me for life. Seriously though, more than half of the B-15's advertised for sale as genuine are postwar copies. It's really easy to spot them. Just do a little research.

Thanks for the advise...Of course because it was handed to me unexpectedly for free, I did not have the need to research it,no need to authenticate it, as no investment in it was made, no loss. But if another one turns up for cash I will make sure I check it out from top to bottom!

I'm going to patch this one up as a civilian CAP jacket. It did have a shield shaped patch at one time, but oddly on the right sleeve as opposed to "military" left ...maybe because of the pencil pocket? It fits me but a little tight...
I have another SM Wholesale B15A military repro which is my regular wear coat when it gets cold (here in sunny So.Cal).

Anyway this civi B15 had a mil spec looking tag which was fraying and hanging by a thread, so I carefully removed it and after ironing it (50-60 years of wear and wrinkles) glued it to another piece of fabric to stabalize it (stopping the fraying) so I can restitch it on the coat without the concern of it deteriorating any further. (stopped the bleeding!)
The tag is still a part of the history of the coat even if its a wannabe military one... On a genuine military B-15 of course I would have left the tag alone!
Anyway this gave me the opportunity to scan (and blow up) this tag for prosperity (and research). I wonder who was behind these jackets? No company listed...
Here it is: (letters in faded gold...appear to be white in scan...)

 

[Willy McCoy]

During and after the war there were a lot of jackets like this that were actually mil. spec. AND made by the same MFGs as the military issued items. "Civil" jackets did see seat time during and post war. Many of these jackets were sold at the PX as replacement jackets. Don't take my word for it, but just look at the Buzz Rickson catalog from a few years back. They actually reproduced them. Known as "Civil" contracts. I have a nice 55j14 that has all the mil. data that we determined on the old forum that it was a PX purchase. Thank you vurry much for sharing the story about the jacket and I hope that you enjoy it fully. I see a lot of the B-15s in the old movies. On the Waterfront has a few.