A2 jackets in RAF

[flyboy]

Picture from 1941 showing Norwegian pilots in RAF - wearing RAF boots and A2 jackets. Interesting combination.

 

[Roughwear]

Thanks for posting this rare picture Soren. I'm wondering who issued these guys with these pre-War A2s when the A2 was not an RAF issued item. You occasionally see RAF pilots wearing A2s which they have acquired from USAAF aircrew.

 

[Falcon_52]

It may be that these A-2s were part of the equipment supplied under the U.S. Lend-Lease Act. The time frame would line up.

Noel

 

[Roughwear]

Thanks Noel. This would make sense. I'm wondering how many A2s the US Government supplied the RAF under Lend-Lease?

 

[dujardin]

great photos

thanksssssssssssss

 

[MikeyB-17]

Note the extreme difference in colour between the third chap from left's (presumably russet) and the other three (presumably seal, but hard to tell). Amazing there was so much variation in an issue garment, although of course with so many different manufacturers with different hide sources, I guess total uniformity was unlikely.

 

[Andrew]

I wonder if there may be some connection through this, the aircraft were all US.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Norway

 

[unclegrumpy]

I wonder if there may be some connection through this, the aircraft were all US.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Norway

Yes, the "Little Norway" connection is exactly it. It is a very interesting story....basically what was left of the little prewar Royal Norwegian Air Force that made it out in 1940 were given a spot in the Canada where they set up a full scale training base, with parts literally carved out of the forest.

As far as equipment, they used a mix of largely donated Canadian, American, and some British military and commercial equipment....including A-2 jackets. There are quite a few early war pictures of RNoAF pilots and trainees wearing A-2s, most likely taken in Canada, but not so many once they were in operational RAF squadrons....though you do sometimes see the guys in the Norwegian Spitfire squadrons still with theirs.

 

[Phantomfixer]

It is my understanding that these guys were on the hunt in Canada, while training, for a German U boat crew on the lamb, trying to get to nuetral USA. The Germans were caught one by one, till only the captain of the Uboat was left. He too was captured on a train trying to cross into the US,however; the Norwegian pilots crossed the border undetected, broke into a USAAF supply depot, stole a few jackets, crossed back into Canada, and returned to base....mission complete MC


They even made a movie about it

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033627/

 

[unclegrumpy]

Below are links to an actual wartime newsreel about Little Norway. It is a bit slow to watch in parts as there is a lot of travel log footage to get people unfamiliar with Norway up to speed. I did not see a production date for this, but it is some months before Pearl Harbor. During the mid 1940 through 1941 time period, there was a fund raising campaign in the States called "Wings for Norway", and this film is part of it.

As far as A-2s....only a few quick views on the flight line, but there is some very rare color footage of RNoAF planes and troops training. Most of the flight gear these guys are wearing is either RCAF or commercial US. For example, the battledress, flight suits, and helmets are RCAF, the goggles are American commercial....and the A-2s....probably commercial versions as well, since many things were purchased on the open market with funds raised during the "Wings for Norway" campaign.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZXIqEAZwSfQ[/video][video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9wZgwrQU5Q0[/video]

 

[Skip]

Note the extreme difference in colour between the third chap from left's (presumably russet) and the other three (presumably seal, but hard to tell).

Hard to tell is correct. Black and white images are very hard to ascertain true colour from, but seeing the spinner is a 2 tone, one being white or 'sky' near the front and the other being red or blue where it meets the prop blades. I'd have a guess the colour being insignia red, which is a a mid grey tone in B&W, same for the upper dark green camouflage visible on the upper wing next to the gentleman on the right. If that was true then the lighter jacket is more likely a light russet ( In '41 underside of RAF fighters was majority 'sky' which was a pale grey and is very close to the pale jacket), the other 3 a dark russet (closer to the red portion of the spinner or dark green camouflage. IMO a seal colour would turn out much the same colour as the prop blades or their sweaters (2 on the left) baring out almost a black tone.

 

[unclegrumpy]

I think the lighter colored jacket is very light shade of yellowy brown, and what might be termed as "buckskin". That is a very common color in 1930's leather western wear and commercial flight gear.

 

[flyboy]

I too am pretty sure they got their A2 jackets while training for combat in "Little Norway" in Canada.

 

[unclegrumpy]

Here is another shot of some A-2s at Little Norway. The Officer to the left with the side cap is Ole Reistad, who was their commander. Interestingly, you can see two of the very light colored A-2's being worn by the trainees to either side of him. For a color a color comparison, the RNoAF summer Officers uniform is a very light khaki.

Here is another shorter color video. Not much in A-2s, except a quick shot of an instructor and a trainee getting into an airplane wearing dark russet A-2s. What should be especially helpful for further color analysis, is about 30 seconds in, Ole Reistad is seen reviewing the trainees in the same very light khaki summer uniform in the black and white photo above.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xLJwzHVpFqI[/video]

 

[TOMG1401]

Let's not forget that quite a few UK Commonwealth pilots along with Chinese pilots and Poles, Czechs', Norwegian, etc... although experinced fliers in their native Air Forces were forced to go thru flight training in the US at that base in Arizona, whose name escapes me right now.

 

[unclegrumpy]

The internet is a wonderful thing sometimes!

Below are some photos from the Norwegian National Archives via the website linked below, of RNoAF pilots from the 331 & 332 Squadrons. Both Squadrons flew Spitfires.

What I think is particularly interesting is that these photos are all taken in England in 1943/44 when the Squadrons were operational, which means these pilots kept the A-2s they received in Canada.

So far in the photos I can find searching about, it appears that only the Norwegian fighter pilots seem to be wearing A-2s operationally. The RNoAF had several other Squadrons as well, flying Northrup float planes, Catalinas, Mosquitoes, Short Sunderlands, and few others....but those pilots and crews all seem to wearing Irvins and the normal RAF kit.

Also interesting, is these jackets seem to be standard USAAF issue, rather than the mixed bag in the much earlier Little Norway photos from a year or two before....and the photo Søren posted at the beginning of this thread.

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... CFcQ7gEwBg

 

[Skip]

Cool Photos, thanks for those, First time I've seen a Spit with the Norway colours on the spinner, or that I've actually noticed before.

IN the first photo is that an insignia/patch he's got on his left shoulder ?

 

[TOMG1401]

really great pics, the jacket was so iconic all fliers wanted it, even the luftwaffe pilots pirated or traded for them from AAC POW's

 

[unclegrumpy]

First time I've seen a Spit with the Norway colours on the spinner, or that I've actually noticed before.

In the first photo is that an insignia/patch he's got on his left shoulder ?

They did not start out with the Norwegian colors on the spinners, so the exact time frame they added them would take some research. 331 Squadron started doing it first, but I could not quickly find exactly when, though I would guess 1943 from some of the photos I have seen.

Here is an interesting link on Norwegian Spitfire markings....and the attempt to drastically change them. From this article, it looks like both Squadrons adopted the spinner stripes in 1944:

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/a-quest ... kings.html

As far as seeing something on the one fellows shoulder.....Skip, all I have to say is I am sure you would have no problem spotting a Hun in a FW 190 coming at you from out of the sun!

Yes, he has a patch painted on his A-2. I almost posted one of the photos below in my last post, but I thought that would be too distracting.

It is the emblem of the 332 Squadron:

 

[Skip]

Thanks Unclegrumpy, very informative. Would have been quite a site, if only allowed, to have seen allied aircraft decorated in full French, Polish, Czech, Belgium national markings.