A little help on jacket insignias

[Anonymous]

The jacket has a 20th aaf on the other shoulder. I know nothing about the insignias other than the CBI 20TH AAF and rank, any feedback on ribbons and othr insignias would be appreciated.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Right sleeve / distinguished unit citation / Armament
Left sleeve / 3 overseas stripes = 18 months
Right chest / Ruptured Duck = WW2 service Blue ribbon / Presidential Unit Citation
Good Conduct / American Theater / Asiatic Theater 4 battle stars / Victory medal
CBI = China, Burma, India
Staff Sgt
I think, but you might consult an expert or two :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh! And I'm pretty sure the Victory with star means WW1 service, but don't hold me to that.

 

[unclegrumpy]

Oh! And I'm pretty sure the Victory with star means WW1 service, but don't hold me to that.

A WW II Victory should not have any service stars...if he had been in WW I, he would have a WW I Victory ribbon on there as well....which did use campaign or battle stars....and a few other interesting devices.

This uniform looks like it was put together right about the time the guy was about to get discharged. It is not uncommon to see little mistakes like this, as they were heading out the door to go home and nobody cared...especially about something as small as this.

 

[Anonymous]

The gentleman passed recently. He was 90, that leaves out WW1.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

A few different reasons from quick google search, but the most popular theory seems to be for actual combat, unofficial, but they did it anyway.

 

[unclegrumpy]

A few different reasons from quick google search, but the most popular theory seems to be for actual combat, unofficial, but they did it anyway.

Lots of pure speculative BS out there. If a guy were in "actual combat", he would qualify for a campaign ribbon to put a star....or in this case four..... on. This is just plain incorrect, rather than anything "unofficial".

The only reason this guy got away with it, was he was already part way out the door, and nobody thought it was worth bothering with.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Just the most popular theory as I said from a quick search, and one of those guys states " straight from the vets mouth " But as we all know, there's a lot of people out there that need to inflate themselves for one reason or another.

 

[unclegrumpy]

Just the most popular theory as I said from a quick search, and one of those guys states " straight from the vets mouth " But as we all know, there's a lot of people out there that need to inflate themselves for one reason or another.

How true!

 

[dmar836]

The one everyone wanted was the CIB. The Combat Infantry Badge was the official notation that you saw actual hostile fire. Now if a guy saw combat but not for at least 30 days(I think it was 30 days in WWII) he wouldn't rank the CIB. Perhaps the star was a guys way of showing this.
This star rumor might have come from the post war policy of Bronze Star being a designation of same. Unless this guy was in later or kept up with stuff, he would not have known about the BS as it wasn't done until later. This is, to me, possible evidence as to the origin of the rumor.
Dave

 

[a2jacketpatches]

The one everyone wanted was the CIB. The Combat Infantry Badge was the official notation that you saw actual hostile fire. Now if a guy saw combat but not for at least 30 days(I think it was 30 days in WWII) he wouldn't rank the CIB. Perhaps the star was a guys way of showing this.
This star rumor might have come from the post war policy of Bronze Star being a designation of same. Unless this guy was in later or kept up with stuff, he would not have known about the BS as it wasn't done until later. This is, to me, possible evidence as to the origin of the rumor.
Dave

Would Air Corps ground personnel get an infantry decoration?

 

[unclegrumpy]

The one everyone wanted was the CIB. The Combat Infantry Badge was the official notation that you saw actual hostile fire. Now if a guy saw combat but not for at least 30 days(I think it was 30 days in WWII) he wouldn't rank the CIB. Perhaps the star was a guys way of showing this.
This star rumor might have come from the post war policy of Bronze Star being a designation of same. Unless this guy was in later or kept up with stuff, he would not have known about the BS as it wasn't done until later. This is, to me, possible evidence as to the origin of the rumor.
Dave

I am not really sure what to make of your comment. This guy was not a ground pounder, and would not have had a CIB or a chance to ever get one. He was probably loading bombs on B-24's and then later B-29's.

The ruptured duck on this uniform also tells us it was not worn too long after the war, just long enough for him to get home in it. If he continued on in the service, the ruptured duck would not be there.

You do bring up an interesting point that is not related to this uniform about the Bronze Star Medal. I would have to check, but I think it was in 1947 that they decided that if you had earned a CIB, you would be awarded a Bronze Star Medal as well.

This was done for two reasons. One, the ground guys were not happy because they thought that the AAF guys got too many medals. Giving them a Bronze Star Medal was an attempt to balance the CIB with the AAF's Air Medal, that was mostly given for completed missions.

And second, it was done to clean up the appearance of postwar AAF, and then later on, early AF uniforms that were worn by guys that earned CIB's in the Infantry during the war and then went into aviation and earned Wings too.

I once had a WW II Ike jacket with a CIB, Jump Wing, and an Aircrew Wing on it....and Air Force style Master Sgt Chevrons. That was a goofy looking uniform!

 

[unclegrumpy]

Would Air Corps ground personnel get an infantry decoration?

If you mean a CIB, not unless they had served in the infantry and earned one there.

"Decorations" are technically medals for valor...like the Bronze Star, Soldier's Medal, Silver Star, DSC, and Medal of Honor. AAF ground personnel could get these.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Would Air Corps ground personnel get an infantry decoration?

If you mean a CIB, not unless they had served in the infantry and earned one there.

"Decorations" are technically medals for valor...like the Bronze Star, Soldier's Medal, Silver Star, DSC, and Medal of Honor. AAF ground personnel could get these.

Combat Infantry Badge, yes, guess I meant infantry qualification rather than decoration, but sometimes foul up a technical term. Got ya on the decoration thing, I even had a ribbon rack recently with mixed service ribbons on it, but no time to figure out that one, authorized or not, hell, I'd starve researching all the technical stuff on such loose regulations this past half century, considering the amount of mixed militaria I find.

 

[dmar836]

My point was just that perhaps the rumor may have started partially due to some seeing combat less than the 30 days required for the CIB. I believe that if you were trained for combat there was a way to get it. There were pilots of gliders that stayed on the ground for many days moving along with glider infantry before there was a safe way out. I'm sure there would be a lot of hoops to that one but since many qualified with the carbine, .45, etc., there might have been a way.
If not then the whole star on the VM as a combat designation is moot.
I doubt seriously that this guy was that special but I have also learned never to say never........ Provenance would be needed for that one.

 

[Anonymous]

His name was James, he was 87 when he passed about a week ago. Graduated with an Engineering degree from Oklahoma A+M, he was in the Army Air Force for 2 years, and 9 months. He was assigned to a B-29 Bomb Squadron. Was an aerospace engineer for 50 years

 

[Anonymous]

I also saw a red dragon looking insignia on one of his shirt sleeves as I recall.

 

[unclegrumpy]

My point was just that perhaps the rumor may have started partially due to some seeing combat less than the 30 days required for the CIB. I believe that if you were trained for combat there was a way to get it.

I think you might be thinking about the requirements for the Expert Infantryman's Badge....there is no actual combat involved to earn one:

Also, Glider Pilots...no matter how long they were on the ground fighting....could not earn a CIB. You had to be in the Infantry or later Special Forces.

Here is a really nice link from the CIB Association regarding the history of the badge:

http://cibassoc.com/history/history-of- ... ans-badge/

 

[dmar836]

Cool.
Again, I never say never but wouldn't buy an odd story without proof. This is way off the original topic but I did see a uniform of a guy with wings on a tanker's tunic. I can't remember the details but it was very put together looking until I saw the papers and a period pic of him in it. Sent to be a Liaison pilot at one point, etc.
Infantry expert I am not..... expert on anything I am not.
Thanks for the link!

 

[unclegrumpy]

I have also seen a Liaison Pilots group with a tanker jacket in it. That one did not have a wing on it, but there were pictures of the guy wearing it in the field. When I say "tankers jacket", I mean the zip jacket with knit cuffs. These guys were flying so close to the ground, and based close enough to the front lines, that I bet they did not like the idea of standing out in a crowd by wearing a brown leather flight jacket. :shock:

 

[dmar836]

LOL. Maybe true.

Take a look at this tunic:

Supposedly trained as a gunner in WWII and assigned to B-29s but never got overseas in time for the end of the war. Somehow when he re-up'd for Korea with the 7th ID, he still wore his wings. I have no idea how he got away with it but there are pics of him in Korea in this jacket. Strange.
Again, off topic but this is just an example of a grouping that I would say is put together from random parts if it weren't for pics and papers. Ironically he also has wings and CIB(though obviously not worn together officially - I don't think).
I might pick this group up for research alone. Must have seen a bit in Korea.

Dave