A-2 Inside pockets

[Lowflyer]

Hello all,

as you see I'm new to this forum, excellent forum btw I found loads of info on A-2's and G-1's, which was great for me since I was looking into buying a good quality A-2 repro....

I recently ordered my first "proper" A-2 jacket (after running around in a Cooper civilian A-2 with......handwarmer pockets :roll, for anyone who's interested it's an Aero "Real Deal" in seal brown....

I think the A-2 is a brilliant jacket the only thing I kind of miss with the originals is to have interior pockets, I prefer putting my valuables inside my jacket rather than in the outer pockets. I had a look around in the different sections of this forum but I couldn't find anything, so I was wondering If anybody here has ever tried (or succeeded in trying for that matter ) to add inside map pockets to their A-2?

I know some airmen used to do it back in WW2 to either sew a separate piece of cloth inside the jacket onto the liner and leave the top bit open, or they just sewed their bloodchits inside and used them as map pockets. I've seen Eastman do it in their 352nd fighter group A-2's (here's a link http://www.eastmanleather.com/images/Wa ... ckmont.jpg). But I haven't actually found any info on doing this, neither here nor on FL....

So I was hoping, if anyone here has done this before, if he could give me some advice on what's the best way to do this and what materials to use etc.....

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Max

 

[havocpaul]

Welcome to the forum. I have been interested in the number of variations of inside pockets on A-2's during the war. As they were done 'in the field' there are no 'rules' as to how to do them or what material to use, as you say blood chits were used in the CBI and some Airborne officers who had obtained an A-2 had pockets from the M-42 para jacket sewn inside; this is an option for a repro as you can buy repro para pockets (SOF in UK sell them at £10) and the material is strong. Eastman's 352nd jackets have very strong canvas pockets although when you compare them with the original they seem a little too 'square'. As to how to sew them in, either just attached to the lining (wouldn't be as strong) or as was most common, sewn through the leather, not an easy job I would guess. Close study of wartime photos show many had rigger-modified pockets in their A-2's especially fighter pilots in the 8th and 9th Air Forces in the UK, good luck with your choice and jackets.

 

[Lowflyer]

Welcome to the forum. I have been interested in the number of variations of inside pockets on A-2's during the war. As they were done 'in the field' there are no 'rules' as to how to do them or what material to use, as you say blood chits were used in the CBI and some Airborne officers who had obtained an A-2 had pockets from the M-42 para jacket sewn inside; this is an option for a repro as you can buy repro para pockets (SOF in UK sell them at £10) and the material is strong. Eastman's 352nd jackets have very strong canvas pockets although when you compare them with the original they seem a little too 'square'. As to how to sew them in, either just attached to the lining (wouldn't be as strong) or as was most common, sewn through the leather, not an easy job I would guess. Close study of wartime photos show many had rigger-modified pockets in their A-2's especially fighter pilots in the 8th and 9th Air Forces in the UK, good luck with your choice and jackets.

Thanks for the quick answer!

What exactly would a "rigger-modified" pocket be?

Well if anything I'd sew the pocket onto the liner, I'm far too chicken to sew through the leather ......nay nay ain't happening the pockets don't need to be terribly strong anyway I'd just use them to keep paperwork (i.e. Passport when travelling) safe while on the road.

I've got the book "American Flightjackets" I'll have a look into that to get some "inspiration" and I'll try to get a hold of some canvas to make the pockets from.....

 

[havocpaul]

Rigger-modified meant they were added on the base usually by the parachute riggers who had access to the required materials. i don't recall any jackets in the flight jacket book having them other than where a blood chit was used. In the European theatre the pockets were normally sewn through the leather for strength and that would be the most authentic.

 

[interbak]

Hey LF,

I had Aero install a left inside patch pocket with a leather top, to make it more durable, when I ordered my Real deal. I figured it was the kind of thing you'd do in the field. Aero will do mods like this for a little extra.

Brian

 

[Lowflyer]

Hey LF,

I had Aero install a left inside patch pocket with a leather top, to make it more durable, when I ordered my Real deal. I figured it was the kind of thing you'd do in the field. Aero will do mods like this for a little extra.

Brian

Yeah I was thinking about that too, the thing is though, I did send my measurements to Aero and they recommended a size 42" for me, so that's what I ordered. I did have some bad experiences in the past with ordering a jacket online in the wrong size....

I don;t want to customize it too much because otherwise (worst case scenario of course) if for whatever reason it shouldn't fit and I need as size up (or down... maybe ) I can still send it back and get it replaced by the proper size, if I start adding pockets and changing things I might end up having spend 340 odd quid on a jacket that doesn't fit and which I can't exchange..... :roll:

So what I might do, if it's the right size and if the jacket fits well, after I've worn it for some time, I might just send it back to Aero so they can add an inside pocket later on....

Any chance you could post some pictures of your inside pocket from Aero, so I get an idea what it looks like?

 

[Lowflyer]

Rigger-modified meant they were added on the base usually by the parachute riggers who had access to the required materials. i don't recall any jackets in the flight jacket book having them other than where a blood chit was used. In the European theatre the pockets were normally sewn through the leather for strength and that would be the most authentic.

Well, it may be more authentic but back in the day the chaps didn't pay 340 quid on their jackets either I wanted to put some patches on my jacket as well but I'm kind of reluctant to punch holes into my leather jacket..... :| I think I can live without having it too authentic

 

[havocpaul]

I guess that's what makes us all different in our needs and wants; I want and will pay for authenticity first and foremost, always have done. If I was to have a repro with internal pockets I would research and go for the most authentic to an original, Eastman have got it near right with their 352nd. No wartime aircrew gave a second thought to what he was wearing (after all it was Govt. issue) other than perhaps being able to personalize it with patches, paint or even internal pockets!

 

[jacketimp]

I guess that's what makes us all different in our needs and wants; I want and will pay for authenticity first and foremost, always have done. If I was to have a repro with internal pockets I would research and go for the most authentic to an original, Eastman have got it near right with their 352nd. No wartime aircrew gave a second thought to what he was wearing (after all it was Govt. issue) other than perhaps being able to personalize it with patches, paint or even internal pockets!

well put paul.......

gotta take the tiga by it's bolls.......

 

[zoomer]

If you put on a unit patch (5"-6" dia.) you could first have a pocket sewn into the hide on the lining side. Then the patch would cover the stitching on the outside.

 

[Lowflyer]

I guess that's what makes us all different in our needs and wants; I want and will pay for authenticity first and foremost, always have done. If I was to have a repro with internal pockets I would research and go for the most authentic to an original, Eastman have got it near right with their 352nd. No wartime aircrew gave a second thought to what he was wearing (after all it was Govt. issue) other than perhaps being able to personalize it with patches, paint or even internal pockets!

Very true, not everybody wants the same level of authenticity, and that's the thing though their Jackets were govt. issued and were part of their uniform, some of them probably couldn't care less about how their jackets looked like or what happened to them after the end of their service in the Military.... Others however saw their jackets more as companions who've been with them through part of their career, the scuffs and marks on the jackets are what gives them their very character and tell their own "stories"...which is one of the reasons I wouldn't buy a new "vintage" jacket (like ELC's .50 cal or Time Worn models) I want my jacket to receive all it's scuffs, marks, wrinkles etc.... from MY wear (I want it to tell my story if you want to put it like that ) not from somebody "aging" it artificially..... but that's just me

But then again, I have to admit I can be very fussy and I just don't like the idea of attaching an inside pocket through the leather an being able to see the sewing on the outside (which is obviously going to be crooked and all over the place, I'm rubbish at sewing :lol......again, that's just me and everybody does this according to his own preferences...

If you put on a unit patch (5"-6" dia.) you could first have a pocket sewn into the hide on the lining side. Then the patch would cover the stitching on the outside.

Hmm... yeah I might try that, I'm still looking for a nice patch to put on my A-2 :mrgreen:

 

[interbak]

Hey LF,

I noticed from your Avatar you're bouncing around between Europe and the UK, you might want to slip up to Scotland and get measured and try on a jacket or two for fit. I'd consider it if I didn't have the Atlantic Ocean in the way, and it would be a bonus just to visit Aero! They are pretty good at sizing, they nailed the sizing on both of my jackets.

Brian

 

[Lowflyer]

Hey LF,

I noticed from your Avatar you're bouncing around between Europe and the UK, you might want to slip up to Scotland and get measured and try on a jacket or two for fit. I'd consider it if I didn't have the Atlantic Ocean in the way, and it would be a bonus just to visit Aero! They are pretty good at sizing, they nailed the sizing on both of my jackets.

Brian

Well I'm studying in the UK at the moment (in Bournemouth to be precise) and I was thinking about this too, the problem is though it's about an 8 hour drive up there (Bournemouth is on the southwest coast (which may not sound like a lot for American standards I guess you guys drive those distances regularly), or I could fly to Glasgow, rent a car and drive for another hour and a half to get there.....

I would've loved to do that (just to see their factory it would've probably been worth it) but with the fuel costs and everything added together I'll spend another 150-180 GBP on my jacket which totals at about 470-500 pounds.... and then I might just as well have bought it at an Aero retailer in Cologne (which is about a 2 hour drive from my hometown) for 800 euros.....

if it weren't for the extra costs I would've done it right away!

 

[jack aranda]

Hi, LF:
I've visited Aero in Galashiels twice and I live in San Francisco, California. The train up from the south will let you off in Berwick with direct bus connection from there. Or the bus station in Edinburgh is only a ten-minute walk from the main train station. The bus ride down country from Edinburgh is scenic, and depending on the driver quite exciting. I love public transit in the UK. I look out the window, drink the awful coffee, and dream of all things UK-ish. And, once you and Will begin talking about jackets, whoa! the adrenalin kicks in. Will is great fun when he's working directly with you. I'd say take a trip up country. Besides, you'll be in Scotland!!! Oh, be still my heart!

 

[Anonymous]

.......... some Airborne officers who had obtained an A-2 had pockets from the M-42 para jacket sewn inside; this is an option for a repro as you can buy repro para pockets (SOF in UK sell them at £10) and the material is strong. quote]

Paul,
I'd be interested to see a photo showing that. I've never heard or seen it myself. Nor have I seen phots of pockets stitched through the leather. Not saying it hasn't been done - just I have never heard of it.

Low Flyer,
I'd be VERY wary of putting the airborne pockets inside a jacket. As they are bellows and quite thick, they will change how the jacket fits you quite dramatically IMHO. Especially if they have much stuffed in them. And if you had only one done, you might look lopsided.

For those occasions when you might want security, I'd look to Ebay for a period original money belt. Cost peanuts !!

Dave

 

[rich]

I'd be interested to see a photo showing that. I've never heard or seen it myself. Nor have I seen phots of pockets stitched through the leather. Not saying it hasn't been done - just I have never heard of it.

Dave[/quote]



I think Paul means this Dave, sorry if I misinterpreted it though................

http://www.eastmanleather.com/images/35 ... 0mont1.jpg

 

[Vcruiser]

There was just a pic posted recently of an A2 displayed at the 8th AAF museum near Savanah with inside pockets sewn through the leather. I happened to see that jacket several years ago. It is not as noticable...or boldly done as ELC's version...but similar concept..for sure.
Van

 

[Vcruiser]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3252

 

[Anonymous]

No Rich, I am aware of the ELC pockets but the airborne ones are very different. They are not flat and have a big pleat in the middle. This, coupled with the flap, makes them very thick. They were made for carrying grenades and ammo and rations etc. Very different to teh ELC ones.

Interesting to hear about the pockets sewn throught he leather VC. That I'd like to see.

Dave

 

[havocpaul]

Most I've seen in original pics and that recent 8th AF jacket were sewn thru' the leather. I have no pics of the Airborne ones but have read it, sure they aren't straight as such but apart from having two snaps at the pocket can be easily sewn inside, as I said, repro pockets from M-42 jackets are available and would make interesting adaptations. it would have been possible to use them if one had been an Airborne officer or glider pilot/ troop-carrier aircrew based in the UK prior to D-Day as photos from the period show many A-2's being worn. The use of blood chits as inside pockets was an easy modification in the CBI and the silk/cotton ones could just be sewn onto the lining, heavier leather chits would have been sewn thru' the leather for strength; back in the early '80's I had a CBI ATC jacket modified like that.