FIVE STAR

[mulceber]

Photos with chunks of exfoliation on HH clearly have nothing to do with fast aging leather. This is clearly a manufacturing defect. A leather jacket shouldn't peel off like an egg or a cheap faux leather office chair. We have all seen how a real leather jacket ages and wears off. What is shown here in the photo is something else.

I don't think it's that clear at all. It definitely doesn't look like the fast aging that other manufacturers do, but I don't think any of us have that clear of a grasp of how tanning is done and what the fast-aging treatment entails. It was once summarized to me as being achieved by neglecting to apply a sealant, which is one of the last steps in the tanning process, but that's pretty vague: maybe the tanners for BK and ELC only apply a very light sealant. Or they apply a different type of sealant that is weaker. If that's the case, and Shawn tried to copy that effect by not applying any sealant at all, then I could well imagine the pigment flaking off as it has.

 

[flyincowboy]

yes i will post some pics it is just like a light surface rubbing effect near the pocket and at the elbows.

 

[MaydayWei]

I have a dubow in the seal steer hide and brother, this is some damn nice leather. It’s wearing the top coat and not flaking like the HH. And it’s very soft and smooth.View attachment 60993View attachment 60994View attachment 60995View attachment 60996View attachment 60997View attachment 60998View attachment 60999

That's 'fast-aging' leather.
It seems like you like it; and all the more power to you.
But for those who like the normal ageing process of leather, it's just not the way leather is supposed to wear over time; certainly not after only 1 month.
It takes years before that starts to happen on jackets, ordinarily at least.

 

[ties70]

yes i will post some pics it is just like a light surface rubbing effect near the pocket and at the elbows.

Hah, got a different leather for the sleeve reinforcements on my jacket !

But apparently we are talking about the trim leather, not the actual sheepskins, right? You got me worried for a second...

 

[flyincowboy]

Hah, got a different leather for the sleeve reinforcements on my jacket !

But apparently we are talking about the trim leather, not the actual sheepskins, right? You got me worried for a second...

Too late for pics tonight going to make them in daylight.

 

[WingAndaPrayer]

That's 'fast-aging' leather.
It seems like you like it; and all the more power to you.
But for those who like the normal ageing process of leather, it's just not the way leather is supposed to wear over time; certainly not after only 1 month.
It takes years before that starts to happen on jackets, ordinarily at least.

It’s not flaking off, so I can live with that. From what I’ve seen it seems the special goat for the dubow is the only one that hasn’t had issues.

 

[flyincowboy]

It’s not flaking off, so I can live with that. From what I’ve seen it seems the special goat for the dubow is the only one that hasn’t had issues.

better leather choice!

 

[ties70]

I am following this whole thread with some really mixed thoughts...

... and see the customers with their demand for instant gratification ("When... When... When!!! Will HH be finally available... Which color? Oh no, I want a more reddish / mid brown / seal color.") as much as a problem as the manufacturer with his "expand the product range permanently, offer everything in no time, customize it, keep the bargain prices" - attitude...

Don't get me wrong, I like a good quality product for a bargain price as much as every other guy here... But how both sides think they could get / offer a quality HH jacket for 300 $.... Sorry, but this beats me...

There is most likely a reason for the other makers to be priced more at than twice the FS price tag... Can't blame the buyer to want one, can't blame the maker to sell one, especially Shawn, who really wants to please everyone.... Somehow I feel that Shawn could use a bit of the Stuart Clurman / Rollie from ATF / Platon - attitude: "Not now, not at this price... Not at all!" A little less rushing, more preparation.

Some here are willing to wait two years for a GW... While others (Shawn included) expect a full collection of various color, hide, knit combinations to make it from planning to selling in mere weeks.

Just a thought: Is there probably a reason that Platon offers just 1 (in words: one) jacket?

And, my personal "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam!": "HH is not FS's home turf... That's goat."

End of rant...

Ties

 

[CBI]

hmmmmmmmmm.....fast aging........... other makers and premium ones do this/have tried this. problem is, after you wear a jacket for a few years, it looks 40 years old as the aging is accelerated - not sure that's what people want

 

[CBI]

Yeo, totally agree - we want it all and cheaply. 5 Star made an excellent Dubow in goat. That should be their A-2 offering -done - at least for an extended period. I love what they do but TBH, after those few pics of Ties, Icecreaman, and one or two other goat Dubow's, the A-2 offering have not looked good at all. Again, love 5 Star and wish them the best of success. One great offering of an A-1, A-2, B-13, etc. makes sense to me

 

[MaydayWei]

I am following this whole thread with some really mixed thoughts...

... and see the customers with their demand for instant gratification ("When... When... When!!! Will HH be finally available... Which color? Oh no, I want a more reddish / mid brown / seal color.") as much as a problem as the manufacturer with his "expand the product range permanently, offer everything in no time, customize it, keep the bargain prices" - attitude...

Don't get me wrong, I like a good quality product for a bargain price as much as every other guy here... But how both sides think they could get / offer a quality HH jacket for 300 $.... Sorry, but this beats me...

There is most likely a reason for the other makers to be priced more at than twice the FS price tag... Can't blame the buyer to want one, can't blame the maker to sell one, especially Shawn, who really wants to please everyone.... Somehow I feel that Shawn could use a bit of the Stuart Clurman / Rollie from ATF / Platon - attitude: "Not now, not at this price... Not at all!" A little less rushing, more preparation.

Some here are willing to wait two years for a GW... While others (Shawn included) expect a full collection of various color, hide, knit combinations to make it from planning to selling in mere weeks.

Just a thought: Is there probably a reason that Platon offers just 1 (in words: one) jacket?

And, my personal "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam!": "HH is not FS's home turf... That's goat."

End of rant...

Ties

I found it difficult to follow your train of thought.
Not least because I have yet to figure out what the crux of your post is.
You bounced from consumer mentality to comparisons with higher-end makers, all the while hinting suggestions as to what attitude Shawn should adapt moving forward.
Please forgive the bluntness, but what is your main bottom-line point?

 

[daw]

Fivestar has made great strides forward in so many ways, but as mentioned earlier this flaking of the leather is somewhat like bonded leather, not what I would want on my leather coat. It's a shame, because the horsehide really looks nice!

 

[bach37strad]

@WingAndaPrayer That jacket looks amazing. THAT is the kind of wear I was expecting. Scuffs, not peeling.

I get what your saying @ties70 , If you'll look back in this thread a bit you'll see my comments about getting the jacket in steerhide originally. But when Shawn recommended the HH instead I admit, I jumped at it because the price was unbelievable.

Maybe I am expecting too much for the price point but still I did let myself get upsold to what I thought at the time was a superior hide. My logic was, "well the steerhide and goatskin look good, and the HH is more expensive so it must be even better right?" I think alot of time, money, and material could be saved if it was made clear that even though the HH is more expensive than the goat or steer, this particular cut is a lower quality HH that wont hold up as well, and that's what justifies the low price point.

Because like you said, I'd imagine if Shawn started using Aero/Eastman/Schott level HH, his jackets would probably be more than twice what he's charging. That said, i dont think that's necessarily be a bad idea for him, because I imagine there's alot of folks here that would pay that premium. Other than the materials used on my jacket, the quality of workmanship is EXCELLENT.

 

[ties70]

I found it difficult to follow your train of thought.
Not least because I have yet to figure out what the crux of your post is.
You bounced from consumer mentality to comparisons with higher-end makers, all the while hinting suggestions as to what attitude Shawn should adapt moving forward.
Please forgive the bluntness, but what is your main bottom-line point?

My bottom lines...?

In simple words: A HH jacket that costs 300 USD, shows excellent craftsmanship, uses high quality components and satisfies both buyer and maker probably can't be done.

Again, I am really not blaming anybody here.
Shawn still delivers the best product for the money, but obviously there are limits to what he can and can't offer.
Buyers, more so with limited experience with the high end makers, are probably lead into expectations (by other buyers photos, reviews... Counting myself in here) that don't match every final product.

The gap between "objective factors" and "subjective expectations" seems to be quite wide, more so for cheaper jackets. For a high end repro, we would probably be less critic, even if it's not fitting well (like some of my GW) or wearing weird (like my Aero).

For cheaper prices, we seem to expect not only a value that matches the money (which we get from FS anyway) but even better value for money (which we get from FS most of the time, as well). .. Not noticing that money is probably the limiting factor for quality here.

Ties

 

[BadMofo]

I have found a place at my pocket where the leather has been rubbed, on the corner of may Smartphone...
From far away is liittle to see. with zoom you can see what happens with rubbing...

 

[BadMofo]

I have one video from Shawn with the leather testing... Here are some screenshots.

 

[Persimmon]

I have one video from Shawn with the leather testing... Here are some screenshots.

Can you post full size please - no thumbnails

 

[Micawber]

Interesting thread, lots of comments, a fair big slice of conjecture, one perhaps two accusatory crumbs based on not much at all other than personal opinion.

The best advice is for those affected to contact Shawn directly and if they are of a mind to post up his comments or invite the man to do so himself as he has shown a willingness to do so in the past.

Give the man a chance.

Yes we all have opinions but there really is no obligation to express them, often observing developments can be far more enlightening. For my part my opinion is that there appears to be an adhesion issue with the colour coat,nut what good has been done by expressing my view? Very little as I do not have an affected garment from the maker in hand so my comment is either based solely on my own past totally unrelated experience or just something I have conjured out of thin air.

Here endeth my sermon for this morning. Peace be with you

 

[Micawber]

Can you post full size please - no thumbnails

This^^^^^

You will get a better response with full size images.

There is an option to post the images full size once the files have uploaded but before posting.

 

[MaydayWei]

For cheaper prices, we seem to expect not only a value that matches the money (which we get from FS anyway) but even better value for money (which we get from FS most of the time, as well). .. Not noticing that money is probably the limiting factor for quality here.

My bottom lines...?
In simple words: A HH jacket that costs 300 USD, shows excellent craftsmanship, uses high quality components and satisfies both buyer and maker probably can't be done.

Respectfully, there is a disconnect between your conclusion and your reasoning.

Your reasoning:
Your reasoning appears to suggest that because one pays less that they are entitled to or at least should expect a lower quality product in comparison to higher-end jackets with higher price tags.
To this extent, you are correct. Shawn and 5 Star are put in the difficult position where, for the prices they are offering their jackets at, their jackets are expected not only to match their value for money but exceed it.
In so far as this goes, we are in agreement.

Your conclusion:
Your conclusion from this line of reasoning is, however, plainly incorrect.
You use the fact that buyers expect too much from 5 star to somehow suggest that it is acceptable that 5 Star churns out a low quality horse hide jacket solely because of its price point; that for 300 USD it 'probably can't be done'. That is simply BS.

Nobody who pays 300 USD for any jacket, horsehide or otherwise, should expect that their jacket be a low quality jacket. Let me make this clearer.
Yes, one should expect a 5 Star Jacket to be not as high quality as other high-end HH jacket makers at far higher prices (in terms of historical accuracy, pattern, craftsmanship, materials etc.). This is obvious and a given.
However, it is plainly BS to suggest that people should expect 5 Star jackets to be low quality jackets simply because of its limiting, difficult, or improbable price point.
This is clearly illustrated by 5 Star's reputation on the VLJ; namely, good quality jackets for low prices; and NOT shit jackets for low prices.

These quality assurance issues are plainly unacceptable. It is obvious that, at 5 Star's price point, the buyer should not expect the highest quality jackets from 5 Star (in terms of accuracy, or craftsmanship, or materials etc.); but it most certainly does NOT justify low quality jackets at all, horsehide or otherwise!