Horsehide VS. goatskin??

[Smithy]

It’s a beautiful jacket for sure , and I’m not trying to put a down side to it, but I’d bet that jacket is at least 25 or more years old to have developed that nicely worn look. I like goat jackets and they do look outstanding over time. It’s just that they take a bit longer to get to that stage . So for me, it comes down to being fortunate enough to have one of each , a horse and a goat .... BINGO!!
Problem Solved.

I think the problem is that most guys here have multiple jackets Burt and flick them off in short order or don't put the hard wear in to them.

There's no doubt that goat needs to be worn to develop what you see in Mike's jacket above. If you're one of those, have two dozen A-2s kind of guys and wear each one once every two years then you won't get the wear in you need to.

Goat will weather and develop patina, even chrome tanned stuff with the heavy top coating but it takes time and dedicated wear. I have a pre release WPG A-2 (why oh why didn't they make the actual release jacket like this) in chrome tanned goat which I have worn really hard for what probably amounts to 2 years non-stop wear. Now it's starting to do what Mike's jacket has above, in terms of the graining, wear points and top coat wearing through.

It doesn't take 25 years to do this even with hard top coat finished chrome tanning but you do need to wear a goat jacket hard and non-stop for a couple of years real, hard wear and especially if it has a hard top finish. AVI LTHR jackets for example have a top coat which wears very quickly so no drama there.

The idea that you need to wear a goat jacket for several decades to develop wear and patina is just wrong. It will probably take more than a HH jacket especially for one of those with a thick/hard finish but regular and hard wear of any jacket with develop wear to the hide, even goat.

 

[mulceber]

Yeah, but, realistically, Smithy, how likely are most of us to put in the kind of wear that you’re talking about. The people who were doing that back in the day had physically strenuous jobs where only a good leather jacket would stand up to the abuse. Most of them also had only one leather jacket at a time. We’re all collectors, and a large portion of us work desk jobs. I don’t see very many of us managing to put a goatskin jacket through its paces, even with the best of intentions to do so.

 

[Smithy]

Yeah, but, realistically, Smithy, how likely are most of us to put in the kind of wear that you’re talking about. The people who were doing that back in the day had physically strenuous jobs where only a good leather jacket would stand up to the abuse. Most of them also had only one leather jacket at a time. We’re all collectors, and a large portion of us work desk jobs. I don’t see very many of us managing to put a goatskin jacket through its paces, even with the best of intentions to do so.

I have. It's not difficult though if you really want to do it. Just get a goatskin jacket and wear it virtually every time you need a jacket. And I mean every time and especially if you need to do manual labour, People round here are a bad selection - most guys around here have multiple jackets and also don't wear them hard to do work or don't put hard labour and wear into their jackets. Wearing a jacket hard and to do physical tasks is the best way to make it look like an original.

If you really want a jacket to look good, irrespective of whether it's horse, goat, cow, etc, just wear the absolute shit out of it. Some hides and finishes might take longer to do this than others but they all wear eventually.

It's wear that makes a jacket look great and not anything else.

 

[mulceber]

I’ve got a desk job and don’t have a yard, so not really in my realm of possibilities.

 

[Smithy]

I’ve got a desk job and don’t have a yard, so not really in my realm of possibilities.

There's still lots of other ways you can get wear on a jacket, you don't need to be a coal miner or own a farm to do it. Next time you need to shift furniture wear your A-2 to do it, need to change the oil/a tyre on your car, wear your A-2, wear it to go hiking with a back pack (this one's a good one because the shoulder wear simulates seat/parachute harness wear that originals often display). There's lots of ways to generate wear on a flight jacket. The best thing is to wear it and not be afraid to wear it doing anything physical. Do that and you'll end up with a super comfortable jacket with great patina ;-)

 

[mulceber]

This is true, and the point about backpacking is a particularly good tip. I'm generally on board for abusing the jackets. When mine get scratches or scuffs, I tend to just shrug it off.

I guess my overall point is that a lot of the people taking the “just wear the piss out of it” approach talk like all that’s required is a change of attitude. For some of us, that’s true. A lot of us will have to actively seek out opportunities to abuse it.

I also just don’t see the point in getting a seal goatskin jacket from Five Star when your last one was also a seal goatskin jacket from Five Star. A different color or hide makes for a more well-rounded collection.

 

[JimO]

I decided to go with the premium quality Seal brown goatskin for my Five Star Leather Weber A-2.

It came out REALLY nice!!

Thanks to everyone for your knowledge, experience, opinions & input.

 

[B-Man2]

Very nice JimO... Enjoy it and wear the piss out of it.
You’ll love the durability of that hide!

 

[flyincowboy]

Spendt some time carefully reading all the posts . Seems like every body like the 60 years wear and patina on a new repro jackets. My first A2 style jacket that i still own is a LL BEAN goatskin SIZE 44 A2 fligth jacket bought in the 90's at the famous fleamarket" LES PUCES" in Paris. Was really impressed with the quality of the leather and the non too much patina, bought this jacket because it has been worn and does no look like a new jacket: Boxy and plastic cardboard look a like. Trough the years the jacket develloped a nice patinawith a bit of wear and become more and more confortable. I really enjoy a classic style from a not worn out beat to hell jacket. Been scrounging for a wartime A2 Most of them in good wearable condition are out of my price range..and new copy ones are 3 times the prices of an original one. I dont care about the hide, each leather wear differently despite the use an of such a jacket veg or chrome tanned make agreat difference too.. . Cow hide has a nice patina when getting old horse hide is nice Goatskin take a little bit of time.. I work as an upholsterer an seen some brand new leathers hide weathered goods looking old and worn out when they getting out of the shop. Ask yourself a question ARE YOU BUYING A NEW JACKET OR A PATINA LOOK?

 

[JimO]

ARE YOU BUYING A NEW JACKET OR A PATINA LOOK?

Hey Cowboy!

Here's the "earned" patina from a brand new goatskin Avirex that I bought in 1989 and have been wearing ever since.

Hopefully, I'll get the same usage & results from my new Five Star...

 

[B-Man2]

Hey Cowboy!

Here's the "earned" patina from a brand new goatskin Avirex that I bought in 1989 and have been wearing ever since.

Hopefully, I'll get the same usage & results from my new Five Star...

View attachment 41178View attachment 41179

Love the color on that JimO. Simply love it

 

[flyincowboy]

Nice jacket i love the colour is it russet brown?

 

[bn1966]

One of the things I like about Goatskin is the fact it doesn’t age too quickly. I had a HH A-2 and wore it to death for a few years, ended up Looking more worn than I wanted (1000 mission) sold it on to someone who wanted that look. It’s nice to currently have the pleasure of trying to run in a 5 Star Goatskin G-1. That said I’m also on the go with an ELC ‘War horse’ Monarch A-2.

 

[ausreenactor]

Will last forever. Internal pocket is very clever!

 

[ausreenactor]

One of the things I like about Goatskin is the fact it doesn’t age too quickly. I had a HH A-2 and wore it to death for a few years, ended up Looking more worn than I wanted (1000 mission) sold it on to someone who wanted that look. It’s nice to currently have the pleasure of trying to run in a 5 Star Goatskin G-1. That said I’m also on the go with an ELC ‘War horse’ Monarch A-2.

You'll LOVE it!

 

[JimO]

Nice jacket i love the colour is it russet brown?

The color is the stock shade of brown that Avirex offered at the time on their version of the WWII A-2.

Looking at their website, it appears that this color is no longer offered.

 

[JimO]

Internal pocket is very clever!

I figured I'd go with convenience, function & practicality over adhering to the original, no internal pocket design.

Five star did a really nice job with the goatskin lip at the top of this pocket.

BTW, the internal rough side of the outside patch pockets on both of my Five Star A-2s have been covered with the same cotton lining as the jacket, which is a very nice & unexpected touch.

 

[Jason22]

One question for those lucky souls who are in possession of both a GS and a HH: do you feel any difference in insulation? I have a HH from Shawn and I love how surprisingly warm it is. Considering getting a jacket in GS I'm concerned that GS might not provide the same warmth like HH does. I do know that in theory HH should be warmer due to its structure and fat content but is it really noticeable?

 

[mulceber]

My general impression is that my horsehide jackets are marginally warmer than goatskin, but a bigger factor, IMHO is stuff like what the liner is, if it has knits, fur collar, etc.

 

[B-Man2]

So … while you never mentioned the type of jacket that you were referring to , for the purpose of this discussion I’ll assume you’re talking about the difference between the warmth of a GS vs a HH A2 jacket.
So Mulceber is essentially correct in that there’s not much difference between the warmth factor of those two hides when wearing an A2 jacket. From personal experience, what is a factor, is whether the jacket fits you trimly vs having it fit with some extra room inside the chest area of the jacket . Extra room allows for more dead space air to warm up to your body temp and to insulate you. More so than a jacket that fits you tightly with no dead space air . Also a larger jacket allows a sweater or a fleece vest to be worn under the jacket making it warmer than a tight fitting one that doesn’t allow for anything other that a t-Shirt under it .