Horsehide VS. goatskin??

[B-Man2]

What about a winterised A2, with a liner made with a wool blanket?

Actually not a bad Idea but then I can’t wear the jacket in warmer temperatures during cool nights where I live . So this is the best option for where I’m living . I’ve also thought about getting one of Shawn’s shearling vests to wear under an A2 in colder weather. I think that would be almost as good as a lined A2

 

[Jason22]

You guys any thoughts on veg tanned Vs chrome tanned? I'm having a look at AVI's goat which is chrome tanned where as Shawn's is veg tanned.

Awesome dubow @B-Man2 !!

 

[AllianceAAF]

You guys any thoughts on veg tanned Vs chrome tanned? I'm having a look at AVI's goat which is chrome tanned where as Shawn's is veg tanned.

Awesome dubow @B-Man2 !!

Here is some good info on this topic:

Full grain or top grain

The question was raised on one of FiveStar’s Facebook pages as to whether they use full grain or top grain horsehide. It led to a post that stated someone had emailed 5* and gotten the response in the attached screenshot. It all seemed a bit of marketing gobbledygook without really saying full...

www.vintageleatherjackets.org

I'll add this.. I can't comment on AVI, but in the budget A-2 world you're speaking of, I had a Fivestar horse (veg-tanned) and still have a Headwind Bronco (chrome-tanned). I can say with confidence the Chromed Bronco has much better drape than the Vegged Fivestar. The Bronco lays better, with more bends and creases, if that makes sense. That's not to say that Fivestar's horse isn't soft, it is buttery for sure. But there was a rigidity to the leather that may have to do with how it was tanned.

 

[mulceber]

Yep, agreed. There are probably exceptions, but in general, my experience has been that veg tanned is prettier, while chrome drapes better and is more pliable out of the box. Over the decades though, it’ll even out: the chrome will become prettier, but also lose some of that buttery drape, and veg tanned will break in and become a bit more pliable.

 

[Southoftheborder]

I doubt that a lot of the less expensive so called vegetable tanned jackets are made of genuine veg tanned hide. Vegetable tanning is time consuming and so a lot more expensive - leaving aside that chrome tanning produces tougher and more water resistant leather. So I think a lot of modern vegetable tanned leather is combination tanned like Horween CXL is.

Horween say they do it as it gives a vegetable tanned effect with chrome tanned toughness. But I think a lot of other tanneries do it as well as for cost cutting reasons but don't admit to it. Chrome tanning first and then vegetable tanning as a finish takes a fraction of the time that real vegetable tanning takes.

I've tested some tiny slices trimmed off of what was sold as a vegetable tanned leather jacket and it reacted to the boiling water test like chrome tanned leather does. It looked like veg tanned but draped more like chrome.

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

Ever since reading the Avirex/Cockpit marketing hype in the 90's where they stated "nothing wears like horsehide; it's tougher than nails", I have wanted a horsehide A-2. When I went to their store in Santa Monica/Beverly Hills and actually saw one, I was not impressed with the look and decided not to buy it. Their jacket had a very, bland, smooth, plastic like finish and totally lacked any character. It was nowhere nearly as nice as my ($200 less expensive) goatskin Avirex A-2, which has both aged & served me well over the past 30 years.

Fast forward to today and my new 5 Star seal brown goatskin Doniger, on which the leather looks absolutely gorgeous & of high quality. I bought it first because @Shawn Ali told me that I would not be happy with the remains of his current seal horsehide and suggested waiting until his stock is replenished. I'm glad I followed his advice.

As 5 Star's combination of service, quality, delivery time & price point are right in my wheelhouse, I am planning on getting their Werber or Bronco A-2 (still flipping coins on the collar stand, LOL!) in the near future. From some of the images of horsehide jackets posted on the VLJ forum, both in russet & seal, (to MY eyes and personal taste) the look of the leather finish looks hit or miss, with the tendency towards bland & unexciting. Is this typical of horsehide jackets at my price point? On the flip side, the images of pretty much every goatskin jacket from 5 Star looks really nice (again, to MY eyes and personal taste.)

I understand that the majority of WWII A-2 contract jackets were made of horsehide. Other than legacy, is there any genuine functional or practical reason to spend the extra money to get horsehide over goatskin? Will the horsehide last longer or look, fit, feel, hold up, or perform any better with age & use? Will it fly the B-17 all by itself?

On their website, 5 Star lists their seal brown goatskin Werber A-2 for a retail price of $160: https://www.fivestarleather.us/coll...ary-flight-distressed-goatskin-leather-jacket
Instead of waiting for their next shipment of seal brown horsehide, I just may go for this instead.

Once again, I thank all of you in advance for your knowledge, experience & insight.

Jim

Horsehide is heavier than goatskin. How durable it is I don't know. I have owned a lot of flight jackets, most of them goatskin. Goatskin is light, and yet very tough and durable. Furthermore, I have worn a goatskin jacket in 70-degree weather without sweating, and it will keep me warm down to about 40 degrees. I don't know how much you are willing to spend, but if you visit the Gibson & Barnes website you will see both horsehide and goatskin jackets with colors other than seal brown. They are pricey, but the G&B's I have owned were of excellent quality (at least by my standards--but I am not a collector).

 

[Nickb123]

Horsehide is heavier than goatskin. How durable it is I don't know. I have owned a lot of flight jackets, most of them goatskin. Goatskin is light, and yet very tough and durable. Furthermore, I have worn a goatskin jacket in 70-degree weather without sweating, and it will keep me warm down to about 40 degrees. I don't know how much you are willing to spend, but if you visit the Gibson & Barnes website you will see both horsehide and goatskin jackets with colors other than seal brown. They are pricey, but the G&B's I have owned were of excellent quality (at least by my standards--but I am not a collector).

G&B has some of the best goatskin I’ve seen on any repro.

 

[CombatWombat]

Horsehide is heavier than goatskin. How durable it is I don't know. I have owned a lot of flight jackets, most of them goatskin. Goatskin is light, and yet very tough and durable. Furthermore, I have worn a goatskin jacket in 70-degree weather without sweating, and it will keep me warm down to about 40 degrees. I don't know how much you are willing to spend, but if you visit the Gibson & Barnes website you will see both horsehide and goatskin jackets with colors other than seal brown. They are pricey, but the G&B's I have owned were of excellent quality (at least by my standards--but I am not a collector).

I'll second that!
Goatskin is perfect for the higher temperatures and humidity we have in Australia.......and my G&B "Luftwaffe" flight jacket is as good as the originals I've handled......now if they only made the BGS "moss green" flight jacket I'd be a happy man

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

I'll second that!
Goatskin is perfect for the higher temperatures and humidity we have in Australia.......and my G&B "Luftwaffe" flight jacket is as good as the originals I've handled......now if they only made the BGS "moss green" flight jacket I'd be a happy man

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

I'll second that!
Goatskin is perfect for the higher temperatures and humidity we have in Australia.......and my G&B "Luftwaffe" flight jacket is as good as the originals I've handled......now if they only made the BGS "moss green" flight jacket I'd be a happy man

Kindly tell me what "BGS" means.

 

[Jason22]

Guys I'm a little torn. I bought my first A2 ever from Shawn like two months ago just to see how I like the style and - if I do - work out the measurements for a high-end-product and sell my current one (I'm not a collector, neither do I intend to become one. I just want one A2 and wear the living hell out of it for the rest of my life. I know, *gasp*)

Turns out I LOVE it and I know my future jacket for life shall be a GS A2 in seal brown which fits me better (my Werber from Shawn is a tad too long). I don't care too much about every minutiae of a specific contract but it should be a reasonably accurate WW2 A2 replica made of a high-level leather that lasts forever and ages beautifully. I'm just wondering if Shawn's GS fits the bill here or if I'm better off investing in something like BK or a GS by Aero. That might be an utterly stupid question as this is all quite new to me but I'm asking myself how big the difference between Shawn's GS and the leathers used by the high-end repro makers. I mean this stuff is like triple the price of a FS, this should be reflected somehow right?

 

[mulceber]

Maybe I’m being dense, but what is “GS?”

 

[blackrat2]

Err you aren’t the only one Jan

 

[Jason22]

Goatskin. Sorry

 

[mulceber]

Looking back, it should have been obvious you meant goat.

IMHO, Shawn’s Dubow goatskin (I’m assuming that’s the one you got?) is punching way above its weight class. I don’t think you’re going to find a nicer goatskin without going to Goodwear.

 

[Jason22]

Thanks for the advice! No I have a HH Werber but the sleeves and the body are an inch too long for my liking and I realised that collar stands annoy me I already met with Shawn's brother in Dusseldorf to confirm the fit of the Dubow Goatskin which works much better for me. So I'm considering getting Shawn's Dubow GS in seal - or upgrading to sth like BK or Aero. Or go all out for a second hand GW? .... yeah that's what's happening in my head right now ^^

 

[Jason22]

Out of curiosity, how does Shawn's HHs compare to the high end stuff? I do like it but as a rookie I have no idea what high quality HH and entry level HH feel like

 

[Skyranger]

Dubow and RW goatskin are sold-out at 5stars. It looks like they don't have goatskin in stock.

 

[mulceber]

My advice: get on JC’s waiting list and in the meantime enjoy your FS Werber. Spend the wait time squirreling away money. You’ll be surprised how painless it is.

 

[Pa12]

For reference, this is my gw dubow