What did WW2 pilots wear under their A-2?

[Sideslip]

This may have been covered elsewhere already, but whenever I look at A-2’s worn by pilots operationally, it tends to be press shots it seems with flight equipment put on for the occasion. They had some form of heating in the cockpit but in winter or in any event, at 10,000-15,000+ feet, it would have been very very cold and if their heater failed or they had damage to the cockpit, it would have been tricky to fly without suffering hypothermia.

They seem to have worn uniform shirt, jumper, scarf and jacket but that cannot be enough. I flew this morning with a merino base and jumper (sweater) plus m422 and the freezing layer was at 3,200 feet. I climbed above to 4,000-4,500 to do some cheeky cloud surfing and general handling and had the heating on which is basically warm air from the engine. I could not feel my toes when I landed and descended to « warmer » air after a while as it was getting cold.

So what did they wear before the B-10?

 

[M. from Berlin]

B-3, B-2, B-1

 

[B-Man2]

an example ;-)

WWII Uniforms and Flight Gear (Photo Shoot)

303rd Bomb Group - Molesworth, England

www.303rdbg.com

Great response !

 

[B-Man2]

The guys in the flight deck or cockpit of the bombers had heaters while the rest of the crew had electrically heated suits . The fighter pilots had heaters and some electric suits but the P-38 pilots did not have heat because the engines were not directly in front of the cockpit . A lot of P.38 pilots suffered injuries from frost bite.

 

[ausreenactor]

The guys in the flight deck or cockpit of the bombers had heaters while the rest of the crew had electrically heated suits . The fighter pilots had heaters and some electric suits but the P-38 pilots did not have heat because the engines were not directly in front of the cockpit . A lot of P.38 pilots suffered injuries from frost bite.

The suffering of a certain element of the European commitment accelerated the development of survivability kit and equipment after WWII.

 

[Sabo]

 

[Sideslip]

an example ;-)

WWII Uniforms and Flight Gear (Photo Shoot)

303rd Bomb Group - Molesworth, England

www.303rdbg.com

That's a great page with wonderful detail and information. Interesting to see that pilots were opting for the tanker jacket and overalls as it was warmer.

@B-Man2 - all aircraft have some form of heating as it is ducted in from the engine. For fighters, they would have needed some sort of heat going to the canopy to see out or it would frost up. I read somewhere that the P-38 was known to have poor heating, but by the end of the war, they had resolved that.

@Sabo - arigatoh! That image makes sense!

 

[Chandler]

View attachment 86479

But, but... that's OVER the A-2.

 

[Sideslip]

But, but... that's OVER the A-2.

But it explains how they kept warm ! I guess that as the A2 was designed in the’30s when aircraft did not fly as high or in Europe, it’s purpose was not intended to keep warmth to that degree? They still used them obviously and new contracts came out but then functionality due to war necessity led to development..

 

[Chandler]

FWIW -- When I got my Avirex B-3 I decided to see how it felt over the Avirex A-2 as an experiment -- not so comfortable. Stay Puff marshmallow man uncomfortable.

 

[Cocker]

But it explains how they kept warm ! I guess that as the A2 was designed in the’30s when aircraft did not fly as high or in Europe, it’s purpose was not intended to keep warmth to that degree? They still used them obviously and new contracts came out but then functionality due to war necessity led to development..

The A-2 was never intended to protect from the cold/winter weather. It was designed from the start as more of a windbreaker. For cold weather, they had the B-2 and then the B-3, which both were contemporaries of the A-2. They both proved to be too bulky for fighter cockpits, thus the arrival of the B-6, then of course the cloth jackets.

 

[Kermit3D]

Was the electrically heated suit (F-1 type) the norm in winter for all airmen ?
If we take the example of a B-17 crew, we can see that some airmen, the least exposed to the cold (pilot, co-pilot, bombardier,...), wore A-2 jackets. I always wondered how they could resist the cold.
Even in summer, the temperature is around -40°C at the cruising altitude of a B-17 (20 - 25000 feet). In the cockpit, the temperature must not have exceeded -20°C (or much less in winter).
Were the crew members who wore A-2s also equipped with heated suits ?

What about the fighter pilots ?

 

[mulceber]

But it explains how they kept warm ! I guess that as the A2 was designed in the’30s when aircraft did not fly as high or in Europe, it’s purpose was not intended to keep warmth to that degree? They still used them obviously and new contracts came out but then functionality due to war necessity led to development..

Worth keeping in mind that by the time the Army Air Force really started doing missions on a daily basis, nearly all of the A-2 contracts had already been given out to the manufacturers. Obviously they had been using the planes for training and the odd mission before late 1942, and they knew that you usually needed something a lot warmer than a leather windbreaker, but I imagine having pilots fly 8 hour missions day-in, day-out did a LOT to drive the point home that the A-2 wasn’t cut out for this type of aviation.

 

[redjoshuaman]

Layers you'll see among the cabin crew (who had the benefit of the heaters) in 1943 when wearing A2s would be:
-Drawers & Undershirt
-Wool Long Underwear (sometimes two pair)
-Wool trousers & shirt (occasionally I've read of two being worn)
-Sweater
-A4 Flying Suit
-Scarf
-A2
-Flying Boots (B6, RAF types, etc.)

They also had rheostats in the cockpit to plug in the F-1 suit so you will see those used as well on occasion, though not as universally as seen among the other crew members.

This can sometimes lead to a "stay-puff" look as seen here:

A bomber crew of the 390th Bomb Group take off their flight gear after a mission in their B-17 Flying Fortress nicknamed "Cabin in the Sky". Image stamped on reverse: ‘Fox.’ [stamp], ‘passed for publication 25 Oct 1943.’ [stamp] and ‘289794.’ [Censor no.] Printed caption on reverse: ‘THE FORTRESSES KEEP UP THE ATTACK. EH/MoH. In spite of all weathers, the Flying Fortress of the 8th A.F. Bomber Command keep up their attacks on important targets over Germany and other enemy occupied countries. These pictures were taken at an 8th A.F. bomber command station in England. Photo shows – Crew of "Cabin in the Sky" getting out of flying equipment after the raid. FOX October 43. 25'

Or here:

A bomber crew of the 390th Bomb Group disembark from their B-17 Flying Fortress after a mission. Image stamped on reverse: ‘Fox.’ [stamp], ‘passed for publication 25 Oct 1943.’ [stamp] and ‘289798.’ [Censor no.] A printed caption was previously attached to the reverse, however this has been removed. Press caption associated with image series: ‘THE FORTRESSES KEEP UP THE ATTACK. EH/MoH. In spite of all weathers, the Flying Fortress of the 8th A.F. Bomber Command keep up their attacks on important targets over Germany and other enemy occupied countries. These pictures were taken at an 8th A.F. bomber command station in England.'

-Josh

 

[Micawber]

Much depends on type of aircraft and crew positions. The Blue Bunny heated suit under the outer was a must in high altitude bombing missions in the European theatre.

 

[ausreenactor]

But, but... that's OVER the A-2.

Three! Two A-2s and a B-3. Needed a 'page' to don and doff though!

 

[herk115]

View attachment 86479

What bothers me is the tie. In the 80s-90s Air Force we had a pre-takeoff checklist and briefing item that stated "Remove rings and scarves" (we still wore scarves then). Wearing a necktie if you had to hit the silk seems like a good way to hang yourself in you don't make a perfect exit.