Validating buyer protection

[kev15]

Dear All,

I am asking you kindly for your knowledge and help. It seems like the manufacturer is not willing to take accountability for the product it delivered. After I returned the item, their last suggestion was to sell the brand new jacket to the secondhand market and the best they can do to help me counterbalance any loss is to offer me a 25% discount on my order for the replacement jacket. As I am trying to stand up for my rights as I see it according to their terms and conditions the latest answer is and I am quoting: "Please get serious, be a man and accept responsibility and loss for your mistake".

Costumer service at this point is outrageous. I am beyond disappointed. For me as a costumer this is an insult. I waited a long time and I was very patient. The product is beautiful, but I do not fit into the size they suggested. I do not see it as my own mistake, as I only relied on their suggestions. I also filled out their questionnaire, stating the intent of receiving a relaxed fitting jacket. I should have done my own research here on the forum, but I intentionally relied on their guidance. As of now I am not eligible neither for a replacement jacket nor a refund. I do not want to name the brand yet and I would really love to have a peaceful, civilized solution. This seems less and less probable with messages like that.

I was also accused of wearing the jacket for too long as I tried it on a couple of times at home. Never wore it outside, or more then 5 minutes every occasion. I wanted to convince myself to keep the jacket and not to wait several long month again. The wrinkles at the elbow area however are clearly visible on the unboxing photo I posted on this forum earlier. With the built in time stamp function of the iPhone I could prove that, as it happened right after receiving the package from the post office. Since I mentioned this, they are ignoring this accusation.

My question would be gents. Did anybody have any kind of similar situation? Does PayPal still protect me, as the payment happened 8 month ago? I was trying to escalate it to a claim but the transaction is not visible on my profile. However, in my emails I still have the PayPal receipt with the transaction ID. Any suggestion or idea is greatly appreciated here or via private messages. Thank you in advance!

 

[Blackboxr1200S]

Hi,

Just happened to check the PayPal protection just a couple of days ago.
Limit is 180 days.

What’s not covered with PayPal Purchase Protection​

• Real estate
• Motorized vehicles
• Custom-made goods that are significantly not as described
• Industrial machinery
• Prepaid cards
• Items that violate our policies
• Anything bought in person (not over the internet)
• Send Money transactions to friends or family
• Disputes filed more than 180 days after the purchase for item not received and significantly not as described claims
• Unauthorized transaction claims reported more than 60 days after the transaction date of the transaction
• Items that were described accurately by the seller
• Donations including payments on crowdfunding platforms

 

[Southoftheborder]

You could try contacting your credit card company to get a chargeback and depending on where you live you may have additional protection. But the chargeback rules are not legally binding they are just rules the CC companies apply.

I think you can only get a CC chargeback with PP if you paid the whole amount with the card through PP - and if a part was paid from your balance you can't. You should check out the local laws and CC rules and practices where you live. The EU has some of the best protection. Chargeback is allowed up to 120 days - I think from the delivery not from the order. But you should check that.

Frankly buying from someone who expects you to wait for over half a year and never responds to emails is risky unless they are an honest decent company. Good Wear would fall into that category but many of the others would not IMO and will try to weasel out of things if they can. Particularly as they may be in a different continent.

This will be the BK you posted about earlier. And they don't respond to emails after you've paid them so that should tel you what to expect if there is a problem with them later.

Of course a company which expects a customer to wait over six months for delivery after taking payment may in some cases be taking advantage of the 180 day PP limit on disputes and has no intention of accepting returns.

You do see BK jackets being sold on eBay as new and unworn quite often.....

 

[917_k]

Frankly buying from someone who expects you to wait for over half a year and never responds to emails is risky unless they are an honest decent company. Good Wear would fall into that category but many of the

This will be the BK you posted about earlier. And they don't respond to emails after you've paid them so that should tel you what to expect if there is a problem with them later.

Of course a company which expects a customer to wait over six months for delivery after taking payment may in some cases be taking advantage of the 180 day PP limit on disputes and has no intention of accepting returns.

You do see BK jackets being sold on eBay as new and unworn quite often.....

After everything I’ve read about them on this forum, I wouldn’t trust them with a barge pole. Amazed anyone still gives them business tbh.

 

[Narco]

Depends what country you're in re. credit card protection. In the UK you lose CC protection if you use PayPal. This is because there is no direct link between the CC company and the retailer. The CC company essentially pays Paypal and then PayPal pays the retailer.
Any company that treats their customers with such contempt does not deserve to be in business in my view. No matter how good their products. I would never dream of treating my customers in such a way. They are my life blood.

 

[Southoftheborder]

I always thought that but I came across this and it seems there is a way around that.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/visa-mastercard-chargeback/#paypal

With pre paid purchases for future delivery the 120 days you have to claim should begin from the delivery date. Debit cards and credit cards are covered by different rules. So he can only try this if he paid by DC.

 

[kev15]

Dear Lads,

Thank you for your inputs, I really appreciate it. I am going to go the card issuing bank personally on Monday and see what they say. The purchase was made by a debit card and I am in Europe with a European bank.

Well, the cat is out of the bag, it is indeed Bill Kelso. I do not even know why I was trying to be discreet about it. Etiquette I would say… I have read a lot about them since, I should have had done my homework before placing the order.

I would strongly suggest everyone to be very cautious with them. My worst customer experience so far with a higher price tag item.

 

[D97x7]

First off...we're no fan of these high-priced repro jacket manufacturers that essentially charge an arm and a leg for what is basically & most likely a $500 or so jacket if it were made in a country with low labor rates, lol.

Fyi, there are 2 sides to every story & it would be interesting to hear the manufacturer's version in this instance.

With that said... apparently waiting 6+ months to return a jacket goes well beyond any type of 'product liability' or 'warrantly' on an article of clothing baring some type of manufacturing defect...particularly if it is a custom order, lol.

It is also rather foolish for buyers to rely on a manufacturer for sizing info other than to convey whether their product runs large or small compared to the buyers regular local sizing. (We lost count on the number of threads where people hereabouts apparently ordered an expensive custom-made jacket to their own specifications only to be completely wrong about what size they actually needed, lol.)

Suck it up as a lesson learned, & next time return the product within a reasonable timeframe...like 30 days max...which is waaaay more than plenty of time to decide if something fits or not, lol.

Just saying.

I thought it took more than 6 months to receive the jacket after paying in full, not that he had the jacket for that long before deciding to return it?
.

 

[Southoftheborder]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people post on threads without bothering to read them properly first.

 

[kev15]

Well, it is true that there are always two sides of each stories.
In this case the manufacturer stands for the fact that it has delivered what was ordered. Me, as a customer, feel totally mislead by having given guidance for a fitting that was exclusively recommended by them. After exchanging several emails over a three week time period (not because of the amount but due to the pace of the communication) I solely relied on their recommendation. As it was my first made to order jacket I put my trust in them without any hesitation. Moreover, with the order process there is a questionnaire which is aiming to reassure the correct measurements of the individual and the intended fit one would prefer. My desire was to have a relaxed fit. However, this form is pure formality, as you can see it did not do help the situation. Yet for me this was the order I placed, my intention for acquiring a well fitting jacket.

As soon as I received it on Dec 13 I contacted them within the hour. I got the response on Dec 28 about my options, but I was still very understanding and patient because of the holidays. As I had time due to work the jacket was shipped out for a return on Jan 15.

They said by their measurements the jacket was delivered as requested. Therefore they do not take any responsibility for me not fitting into it. No, unfortunately I did not grow. I was also accused of wearing the jacket for too long and visible wrinkles on the elbows. However, I debunked that with the unboxing photo. I felt this as a cheap and very unecessary attempt to ditch accountability. That is my story.

 

[Nickb123]

From my observations, BK seems to recommend an A-2 size equivalent (or one size up) from one’s chest size. That might work for some of the population, but I’m far from convinced.

 

[B-Man2]

Having gone thru this on one occasion with a jacket maker on this very forum, I can tell you that there are very specific time line limitations on how long you have to file a request for the credit card company to step in and take action against the company who has your money. As stated earlier it is usually 180 days from the date of purchase. Once this time period has past it’s very difficult if not impossible to get any assistance in reclaiming your funds. While it stings to have to endure this sort of shit from a company that you paid $800.00 dollars to, you have learned a valuable lesson . Don’t do business with any company who doesn’t respond to your emails. PERIOD! If they don’t respond to your emails after you’ve paid them $800.00 and are waiting for a jacket, why would you think that they would respond to your emails after you get the jacket, and you’re not happy with it ? Don’t do business with companies that aren’t firmly established as a quality jacket manufacturer with a history of being in the industry for at least 10 years BUT …..if you do… then do your research, read their reviews and come to this forum prior to putting your hard earned money down. While many might disagree, It’s better to invest a couple of more hundred dollars to buy a top tier jacket from GW or ELC than to face the predicament you are now facing. I’ve been around this forum since 2009 and not once have I ever heard or read about a customer of John Chapmans or Gary Eastman having to go thru what you’ve described and not being throughly satisfied with their jackets or having their money returned. In fact I know of at least four or five cases where John Chapman remade jackets for people who were dissatisfied with the first jacket they received. I know this isn’t going to solve your current problem but if it were me .. I would simply sell the jacket for a couple of hundred less than what you paid for it, and save yourself the stress and aggravation of dealing with the people at BK.
Best of luck getting your money back .

 

[kev15]

Keep this in mind gentlemen!
By EU laws and regulations you are protected up to 180 days from the time of purchase or…

4 month from the last recorded conversation by the vendor! Obviously the bank will need to investigate and it takes time, but in my example they were very helpful. They take it severely.

Thank you for your contribution above, although I have not yet received it, no doubt this will save my invested pennies!