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Rotenhahn deactivated

dmar836

Well-Known Member
On my Yahoo group, admittedly quite a bit different than a full-on forum, I had to decide early on whether of not to intervene on topics I felt were inappropriate and even offensive enough to make other members quit the group. I chose to let it go and was verbal about that. We lost good people over what I could see was a simple misinterpretation. Still, I stayed out of it. If I get involved, I would have only those with whom I agree with around me. That comfort zone is a part of my life I am trying to grow away from.
However, I certainly don't envy the position you have. It's tough.
JMO,
Dave
 

jack aranda

Member
A) I had no back history on Jeff, only knew what of him what he posted, including that he was German. I thought, when I first read, and viewed, his last post, that it was done somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Only when I read some of the follow-up commentary by him did I realize how deeply his sentiments ran. That was a bit of a surprise.

B) The move to 'deactivate' does not sound capricious, or sudden. I agree with whoever posted that there were no probably behind-the-scenes cautions and appeals for reason before Jeff's plug was pulled.

C) This forum is a voluntary association of a particular sort of enthusiast--vintage leather jackets the glue that binds it together. All of us arrived here by different paths; we are all different lads, scattered all over the globe, and separated in time by decades of living and experiences. No way we can keep from rubbing each other the wrong way now and again. I would recommend? ask for? suggest? a cooling off period for Jeff, take a walk around the block, have a pint. Same for all of us, and, maybe, see if Jeff, and us, want to have another shot at having him be a part of this forum.

With respect, Bill. I'd not willingly take on your role; don't read this as second-guessing or Monday-morning-quarterbacking. You made the call. Okay. You're the moderator; that's what you do.
 

m444uk

Active Member
Grant said:
Rotenhahn's posts whether you agreed with them or not made you stop and think for a moment. His anal-retentive insights on jackets were painfully dead on. Censoring someone like him will lead to conformity and mediocrity. I couldn't disagree with Bill more on this. Suddenly 2012 feels like 1984. Happy New Year!


" Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. "
 

RudyN

Member
People must remember that a forum is like a persons home and if you don't follow the rules out you go.
 

JDAM

Member
ButteMT61 said:
Just try it out and see for yourself.
Ah, now I see what you mean. As for trying it out, I have, several times, and still do. It's rather easy. There are ways and means of moderating online forums. Some like to micro-manage, others let it all go. The worst are unclear in their own minds and inconsistent.

VLJ mods have determined that 'politics' is forbidden. In the context of VLJ, it seems to me that 'politics' means any opinion or content that messes with a simple, provincial mindset. Smutty posts about tits and arse are OK, as are jingoistic / political comments that do not offend the Shire. If it's appropriate for a tired, no-nonsense club-house, it's generally OK here on VLJ.

VLJ is OK for technical info only. Lively conversation, debate, argument, 'politics!'? No. If that's what you're after, then there are much better online forums.
 

Steve27752

Well-Known Member
I have been a member since VLJ in it.s first carnation. And the moderators decision is final.............................We are not even allowed to edit our own posts!
 

havocpaul

Active Member
I think he kind of over-stepped the mark on a number of recent posts, I didn't like his 'personal' attacks on Gary Eastman during one of those tedious ELC v GW threads, and the comments about the Nazis obviously could be construed as going a bit too far but I thought most of the time he was just being deliberately confrontational and controversial to see who would rise to the bait, so mostly I chose just to ignore them. I have for years been on the Backstreets Bruce Springsteen site and there are a couple of individuals who's every post is written to provoke, most members know what they're like by now and just let them rant and rave, by ignoring them they at least don't get the 'fame'. it becomes amusing how some people just think they're being clever, it's not just on forums, it's life. so do we censor and delete these folk? Well if they break the rules of any forum then 'yes', that is the choice of the moderators.
 

better duck

Active Member
MikeyB-17 said:
I'm sorry if Jeff's been banned-I was quite pleased to see him back. He was a bit too much of an admirer of the Third Reich for my tastes (although he's not the first to say the Nazis had cool uniforms or had good generals-and that alone does not make necessarily make him a Nazi sympathiser) and he didn't pull his punches, but he knew a lot about jackets, especially Roughwears, and he was dead right about manufacturers not doing enough to get the little details right on their jackets, as John Chapman was to prove. He also made the place a bit more interesting.
I don't, however, know what went on in the background to bring about this decision, and didn't catch the last throes of the offending thread. Being a Mod and running the forum isn't an easy job I would imagine, and Mods sometimes have other things to worry about than the views of the membership. It's a shame he's gone, but as I don't know the full facts I'm not going to condemn the decision.
My feelings exactly!
 

airfrogusmc

Well-Known Member
Grant said:
Rotenhahn's posts whether you agreed with them or not made you stop and think for a moment. His anal-retentive insights on jackets were painfully dead on. Censoring someone like him will lead to conformity and mediocrity. I couldn't disagree with Bill more on this. Suddenly 2012 feels like 1984. Happy New Year!
How Orwellian... :shock:

Yes Grant most of Jeffs comments about flight jackets were dead on and I will miss his insights and his unflinching frankness.
Happy New Year...

Wanted to continue with I know Bill and the mods have a very tough job and that I my not always agree with their decisions I think they do a very good job and I certainly wouldn't want any harm to come from any remarks made here to Chris and his family. We all know what a litigation happy society we live in and IIRC some of the players may have threatened law suits to members here in the past. The decision was made, lets move on.
 

ButteMT61

Well-Known Member
With online forums (yes, technically easy to do, administratively not so much) you have basically three ways to go:

1) Anything goes: This means a lot of crap to wade through. Good people leave. Idiots rule and it becomes worthless. Anarchy.

2) Complete iron fist: Things are wound very tightly. You know what to expect, and lots of good info, little personality. Folks who like more zing in their forum come and go, those who like tight controls stay. Not much "fun".

3) Somewhere in the middle: Good info, spirited conversation, occasionally you get put in the corner for bad behavior. Usually has good info and the occasional battles with personalities. The best way to go, hardest to maintain.

I like #3. It's the only way to maintain a community over time. It's not about "freedom of speech" - there is none on someone else's website. You are all free to make your own forum and give it a shot. You can choose the model of moderating you like. Here, we play by someone else's rules. It seems OK to me, I go to other places that are much more strict and less entertaining.
 

Vcruiser

Well-Known Member
I agree Butte
#3 most often works best...but ain't easy.
I'm a Mod on a couple of car forums....and believe me..they can get very spirited. We tend to give friendly warnings. Rarely delete posts...and banning is always a last resort. Most often if someone insists on unpopular behavior...he is given a cooling off period of inability to post which is announced to him and the forum.
We do have a Moderator board to copy and paste questionable posts to consider among the Mods and owner determining if there seems to be any compliance with our warnings. If we determine it remains an ongoing problem..he is gone.
Van
 

ButteMT61

Well-Known Member
Spot on Van.
You have two choices with forums because people will always leave if it's too lenient or too unrestricted.
In my experience as a mod and regular poster, I'd rather not lose good people that know how to control themselves. And I've been sent on timeouts in plenty of places :lol:
 

Vcruiser

Well-Known Member
I've found that it can also be interesting..and even beneficial to a forum when someone comes along to go against the grain...or the supposed board 'elite'. When staying mainly on subject...it can free others to speak up as well. It does allow a forum to breath..change..and add new life. It may require a bit of moderation through that process...but..can somewhat breakup a stuffy environment and allow others (especially newbies) to easier participate.
Van
 

Steve27752

Well-Known Member
I would like to say, a big thanks to Chris for setting setting up and allowing us to access this forum.
And a thank you to the mods for the difficult decisions that they make.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to all members who post on VLJ.
Now about the edit function :roll:
 

bfrench

Administrator
Steve27752 said:
I would like to say, a big thanks to Chris for setting setting up and allowing us to access this forum.
And a thank you to the mods for the difficult decisions that they make.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to all members who post on VLJ.
Now about the edit function :roll:
Guys, you have a 30 minute edit window.
 

Persimmon

Well-Known Member
bfrench said:
Steve27752 said:
I would like to say, a big thanks to Chris for setting setting up and allowing us to access this forum.
And a thank you to the mods for the difficult decisions that they make.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to all members who post on VLJ.
Now about the edit function :roll:
Guys, you have a 30 minute edit window.

Be Happy.
Big Brother has spoken !!
 
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