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Red Rot

Andrew

Andrew

Well-Known Member
Unfortunate topic but a timely one lately. If you've expreienced it here's the place to post examples of it to help others avoid it before investing in it- if you dare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_rot


A 27753 which otherwise has extremely strong leather. Just can just make out the "minor surface flaking" ;)

RIMG0025.jpg


RIMG0024.jpg


This may be better located in Care and Pres....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Now here's what I would describe as good legit 'surface flaking'. Me thinks there's a difference.

vm644collar.jpg
 
Andrew

Andrew

Well-Known Member
Yep, that's just the top colour flaking off whereas the leather surface of the one at the top is actually cracking and falling off revealing a suedelike surface below which is very prone to tearing.
 
taikonaut

taikonaut

Active Member
Here is a thread from not so long ago about a Perry on ebay, it was re-dyed and reissued maybe for Korea though there were question raised about "dry rot" that was denied as untrue by the seller. It didnt look like dry rot to me just the dye was flaking off showing the original lighter dye of the jacket, what do you think?

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=735
 
Andrew

Andrew

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I dunno- it certainly has the initial appearance of the malaise but it is probably just the colouring as Andrew and you suggested. This is why I started this to try to have an objective discussion on the subject with input from those with actual examples of the condition.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
taikonaut said:
Here is a thread...
Click to expand...

Tough one, sort of. Some jackets with very red hide i.e. the 21996 can look like they're rotten. I don't know about this goat Perry. This is one you'd really have to take a look at in the flesh. I would be cautious but take the seller's word for granted and inspect it. If I found it to be rot then I'd just return it.

Some of the 'flaking' on the inner sleeve (second to last shot) of that Perry would have me worried. It looks fibrous and moist. But again, wouldn't / couldn't say yes or no without handling it. Most of the jacket looks OK, and the lighting (looks like it was shot at night) seems to have played a part in capturing certain colours and tones.

The difficult ones are those like the Aero above, when a jacket is at risk but not quite there yet.
 
taikonaut

taikonaut

Active Member
So what do you do with a jacket were the dye or surface has flaked off? Pecard, leatherique or leave it? I tend to find leatherique maintains the chacteristic of the leather better.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
taikonaut said:
So what do you do with a jacket were the dye or surface has flaked off? Pecard, leatherique or leave it? I tend to find leatherique maintains the chacteristic of the leather better.
Click to expand...

One piece of advice based upon bitter experience - apply leatherique very, very sparingly in slow layers to a jacket like that Aero above. Time and patience are really important. Any jacket that is very dry will not react well to any moisture or liquid. If it gets too wet it will contract, shrink and crack as it dries out. There is a reason many collectors just opt to do nothing, but yes the long term result of doing nothing can result in worse. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I don't think there's a standard practice. I look at every jacket individually and depending on it's rarity, value, historical significance, condition etc. make a decision whether to leave it alone, try a little leatherique or a Pecards. The Aero above I would probably not touch.
 
zoomer

zoomer

Well-Known Member
I guess nobody in the jacket community has tried Cellugel. It's supposed to stabilize red rot, but only book conservators know about it.

It would be too bad if we didn't find out about something that might be useful just because it was meant for a different trade or specialty that none of us ever think about.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I thought in real life "red rot" was a condition of goatskin tanned a certain way in the beginning of the 20th century. A specific chemical was used to speed the tanning process and the goatskin would react with sulfur in the air to produce a distinctive red flaking condition. I think what is illustrated in this thread is simply "rot" from old age- the fibers of the leather are actually pulling apart.
The deterioration of leather that Cockerell refers to is called "red rot". It is a breakdown in the fibrous structure of leather that results from the action of acids; as it progresses, the leather becomes loose and powdery. A number of factors contributed to the dramatic rise in the incidence of this type of deterioration. The Industrial Revolution began in the mid-19th century, and one of its effects was the production of the atmospheric pollutant sulfur dioxide, a potent source of acid. The new synthetic dyes and mechanical means of shaving skins required the use of other powerful acids, such as sulfuric acid, in the tanning processes (Barlee pt. 7). At this time, tanners also began to replace pyrogallol tannins with catechols because of their swift action and lower cost. Unfortunately, catechols have no non-tan buffers to resist these acids (Waterer 13). One of the reasons that goatskin was considered to be the highest quality of bookbinding leather is that the original method of processing with Sumac tannins created a leather which was not subject to "red rot" (Waterer 20).
Click to expand...
From: http://www.ischool.utexas.edu/~cochinea/txt/k-kelly-04-imputrescible.txt

or: http://books.google.com/books?id=G7...hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result

I guess according to these sources it can happen to any leather not only goatskin like I had thought...
 
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