RARE pre-WWII 1937 B-3 white leather flight jacket

[sideshowjoe]

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-pre-WWII-1937- ... 4a9ca567ca
Has anyone seen one of these before? Looks to be in overall good condition with a few small issues. No reserve on this one, either. leather tag reads:
MF'G.S.F.A.D., 1937; DWG No. 33G5595; TYPE B-3; SIZE 44R
Regards,
Joe

 

[Weasel_Loader]

I'm watching that one too. Nice historical piece but I wouldn't be caught dead in it. Very few people can pull off wearing one of those around.

 

[greyhound52]

And a 44 to boot. I would be afraid to wear it because of its historical significance. But a nice jacket.

 

[Peter Graham]

They do come up but that's the best one I've ever seen. One for the real collector. No one has ever come up with a theory for the mystery chest buckle.

 

[Swing]

They do come up but that's the best one I've ever seen. One for the real collector. No one has ever come up with a theory for the mystery chest buckle.

The collar doesn't snap down like on WWII models. One of the collar belts was supposed to go down through the chest buckle (I'd assume the top one, looking at the wear it has compared to the lower belt) to hold the collar down a certain way. Not exactly sure how it worked. I notice there are snaps on the under side of the collar to snap it together. Never noticed that before. Looks like you'd have to curl under the left collar to attach it to the right. I assume the zipper on the right hip is a period alteration.

~Swing

 

[deeb7]

The same seller recently listed the original B-2, and other early jackets ...

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5553&p=52470

 

[deeb7]

Has anyone seen one of these before?

There are earlier threads here, but difficult to find now with this Search. Here's a link to other pictures of uncoated B-3's, that have also appeared on eBay ...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5416&p=51192#p51192

 

[bombs away]

Hello,

Nice jacket but looks fragile...

Here are 2 pics of a white B-3 worn during ww2 in England, in the 100th Bomb Group.

Tim

 

[asiamiles]

The collar doesn't snap down like on WWII models. One of the collar belts was supposed to go down through the chest buckle (I'd assume the top one, looking at the wear it has compared to the lower belt) to hold the collar down a certain way.

As good a theory as I've heard but is it really possible? I just don't see how the strap from the opposite side could possibly go through that buckle.

 

[zoomer]

Note that the mfr is "SFAD" - possibly San Francisco Army Depot? (There's no such installation any more - there wasn't even by WW2. Perhaps it had changed names by then.)

I suggest San Fran as it is close to March/Hamilton Fields, major bomber bases in the 30s.

Note also that the info is stamped, surely because the jacket was a one-off or limited run, making a loomed tag unfeasible.

Comparing it with the 1935 contract Werber B-3 shown at deeb's latest link, it has dyed, smooth leather shoulder and elbow reinforcements - suggesting a prototype attempt to make the 1st generation, all-sheep B-3 more durable.

Mystery guess...could the chest strap have been for an oxygen mask?

Another mystery...would the Depot simply have added reinforcements to a contract B-3, or made an entirely new garment?

Lastly, what does anybody make of the patch?

The seller notes that the motto scroll reads SUSTINEO ALAS "(I sustain the wings"=basically Latin for "keep 'em flying").
In WW2 this was the motto of the AAF Technical Training Command, which used the blue crest in the center, but NOT the hand & gold key above.

That's all I know so far.

 

[deeb7]

Note that the mfr is "SFAD" - possibly San Francisco Army Depot? (There's no such installation any more - there wasn't even by WW2. Perhaps it had changed names by then.)

I suggest San Fran as it is close to March/Hamilton Fields, major bomber bases in the 30s.

Note also that the info is stamped, surely because the jacket was a one-off or limited run, making a loomed tag unfeasible.

Compare with the first D-1 jackets circa 1940, also with leather labels stamped S.A.A.D. (San Antonio Air Depot). By fiscal year 1942 there was a later version, now with woven labels.

 

[asiamiles]

To my eyes the condition of this and some of the straps don't match with the rest of the jacket. Anyone?

 

[zoomer]

Could they have been added on later?...
...either: to a preexisting contract B-3 by the Army (or Air) Depot in '37, as indicated?
...or: by some unscrupulous counterfeiter at a still later date, to make a phony rarity out of a real one?

Let's see a photo of those 1940 D-1 stamps, please!

Now about that Air Depot... Forget San Francisco.
There were only 4 Army Air Depots in the 1930s: Middletown, PA (part of its giant Army Depot); Sacramento, CA; Honolulu, TH; and Scott Field, IL. SFAD is Scott Field Air Depot.
Today Scott AFB, it's in Belleville a little E of St. Louis.
Scott was also briefly the location of the Air Corps Technical School, forerunner of AAF TTC, which I mentioned above. It was also located at Chanute Field, IL, and Lowry Field, CO, pre-war.
So I think that explains the insignia!

 

[SuinBruin]

Did the early sheepskin jackets use the R (regular), L (long), S (short) designation in sizing? I don't know that I've seen a flight jacket include an "R" as part of the size identification before. (But then, my experience in this arena is, to be charitable, extremely limited....)

 

[deeb7]

Did the early sheepskin jackets use the R (regular), L (long), S (short) designation in sizing?

Yes, though it's not that simple ... larger sizes, for example, were available in Long Slender, Regular, and Stout.

 

[deeb7]

To my eyes the condition of this and some of the straps don't match with the rest of the jacket. Anyone?

Oh, I see what you mean ... that looks like it was created sometime last week. The lettering on the S.A.A.D. D-1's has more of an embossed look, and appears, you know ... old.

 

[USMC_GAU-21]

Look at the stitch depth in the light brown piece with the data on it.....then look at the stitch depth of the vertical seam down the center of the jacket for sure different. Two different needle depths, and patterns....seems unusual, but maybe like another forum member said it was applied later..... :?:

but for sure different sewing machines.

r/Gy Dan

 

[Roughwear]

So are we saying the embossed strap has been added much later?If so why would someone go to the trouble of doing this. It's not usual to find pristine collar straps on lightly worn B-3s even ones dating before the war as they got little exposure to the light or wear hidden beneath the collar. It's also common to find different thread and stitching used on the same jacket.

 

[fishmeok]

They would have been made on diferent machines- the tape uses a double needle specialized set up and the collar would have been done on a single needle. Lot of effort to make a fake like that though, don't think it's that usual to put that much time into faking USAAC stuff?
Cheers
Mark

 

[zoomer]

I doubt it's any kind of fake.
An original, untampered-with, undyed B-3 would be worth too much to screw with, and anyone who knew enough to do this would know it.
All signs point to Scott Field, 1937.