Horsehide Question

[Robman]

OK so now we have some proof that cowhide was used on original A2s. Let's take the Aero 21996 as an example that Mr. Eastman had examined. Came back as cow. I assume there was also a good number of them in horsehide or are we to assume they were all made of cow?

 

[blackrat2]

I am thinking that short of doing DNA on every jacket made...I can only think for larger contracts where goat and hh has been proven to have been used a can see no reason why steer hide wasn't also used...ie the maker using whatever leather they were given

 

[Robman]

I guess what I was trying to say was that some are now thinking their repro Aero A2s in horsehide or whatever contract in horse are inauthentic. Not having seen the book in question I am simply asking are we to assume all were done in steerhide or simply assume done in all hides available. Wouldn't suprise me if one had horsehide pockets on a cowhide jacket or vice versa. Could also explain why there appeared to be so many color variations among the same contract, etc.

 

[Roughwear]

I suspect that in order to complete a contract cow, horse and sometimes goat was used. As Gary has only had a very small sample of A2s tested this does not mean every contract was exclusively made of horse or cow.

 

[Robman]

Thank you, I guess maybe we should test all to see if there are horse A2s!!!!!!!! LOL

 

[Andrew]

This has had me thinking as well. I'm no expert but I have owned a 21996 before and pics I've seen of other examples of this contract all look the same, plus it's commonly known that 21996's have that particular leather wear, colour and grain. If the one Gary had tested looked like this you might suggest that a lot of that contract was cow.

On the other hand I've got two Perry's that are nothing like each other, not conclusive but it suggess different types of leather, if not different types of hh.

 

[bseal]

Gary Eastman had a DNA test to confirm the Daisygate scandal of years past. Just kidding.

 

[Chandler]

Gary Eastman had a DNA test to confirm the Daisygate scandal of years past. Just kidding.

Gary didn't, but others did and the majority returned horsehide results.

 

[Vcruiser]

...That's not my understanding from years go on the forums. Swing(ELC fan)argued that the problem was that the tiny optional HH box 'was not' checked on the ELC order form...so steer was sent. Trouble was..some never noticed that box or had any idea that HH was optional(assuming that it was standard). Later there was much upset and disappointment.
So you are now saying that the majority sent were HH anyhow?

 

[chancerider]

I don't have any data to back up my feelings that after the war really go going...the vast majority of A2's were cowhide. I've stated this before and gotten blasted, and I freely admit to not having any proof...but lots of things at that time point to this very plausible state of affairs occurring. The original 1931 specs called for horse. That was a different era then 1942.

 

[Jeff M]

...That's not my understanding from years go on the forums. Swing(ELC fan)argued that the problem was that the tiny optional HH box 'was not' checked on the ELC order form...so steer was sent. Trouble was..some never noticed that box or had any idea that HH was optional(assuming that it was standard). Later there was much upset and disappointment.
So you are now saying that the majority sent were HH anyhow?

Got to read that fine print...... :shock:

 

[TOMG1401]

And also have the brains to confirm what you are purchasing for a substantial amount of cash, as you would with any purchase, or is there another dumbass retort to this also

 

[TOMG1401]

And also have the brains to confirm what you are purchasing for a substantial amount of cash, as you would with any purchase, or is there another dumbass retort to this also

 

[Vcruiser]

Hey..I've got one..
How about the customer must check a tiny box for the less desirable 'SteerHide'(back then)...otherwise you get sent the Horsehide as advertised in the picture on the website.
Sweet and simple!

 

[MikeyB-17]

My memory's not what it was, but I don't remember anything about ticking a box. As I recall, it was a case of the jacket being advertised in the Golden Book as being made of an 'aniline dyed hide' (neither horse nor steer mentioned). Aniline dyed horse was hard to come by, if they had horse in stock you got that, but if they didn't, the 'hide of default' was steer. The hoo-hah ensued when some discovered that their jacket which they thought was horsehide may in fact have been steer. Then you got 'what's the difference, you can't tell them apart anyway except by DNA testing', 'yes you can, I can tell with a magnifying glass' said Ken Calder, 'no you can't', much mayhem ensued. Plus ELC said that steer was 'an authentic hide', although at the time the evidence we have now was not publicly known, so much argument as to whether the USAF used steer as well. Happy days.

 

[Vcruiser]

Checking a box/not checking a box on the order form was only Swing's excuse as to why ELC would send steer. No one else(that I remember) even noticed any box to check.
Ken still claims that he can tell the dif in steer and HH..even without a magnifing glass. Aero seems to be going through that process with customers right now.

 

[269sqnhudson]

I ordered mine over the phone as was more common back then. They never gave me an option. However it was the same hide as the ELC 1401 Marc W reviewed on Acmedepot so I was very happy with it. It was actually properly aniline and if you scratched it it left a mark. It was just like the hide on Jimmy Stewart's A2 (from what I could tell). They haven't as yet bettered that hide in my opinion. I also had a pre-warhorse-warhorse 1401 ( ) from 2006 when the older smooth hide was called warhorse. It was semi-aniline and not at all as good as the 2000 one.

T

 

[TOMG1401]

Van, please stop applying logic to debunk all efforts to gloss over that scam

 

[Vcruiser]

Van, please stop applying logic to debunk all efforts to gloss over that scam

Yes Tom

 

[TOMG1401]

your a team player