GW Aero 16160 size 44

[Roughwear]

A familiar seller. I suspect he is upgrading again and is after a GW made from John's latest batch of HH.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/A-2-A2-Flight-Jac ... 0302961799

 

[Anonymous]

We assume that Andrew but is that the case ?

How can a jacket that was touted by Rote and which does, to be fair, look fantastic, end up on Ebay to fund a replacement that CAN'T look any better thant his one ?

I just don't get it :roll:

Dave :ugeek:

 

[Roughwear]

We assume that Andrew but is that the case ?

How can a jacket that was touted by Rote and which does, to be fair, look fantastic, end up on Ebay to fund a replacement that CAN'T look any better thant his one ?

I just don't get it :roll:

Dave :ugeek:

The new batch of HH which John has got is superior to that used on this Aero and many other jackets. Rote is most likely after an A2 made from this hide as it is closer to the HH used on original A2s. I may be wrong. Perhaps its just a credit crunch sale?

 

[jacketimp]

easy come easy go.............anyone?

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew, in what way would it be superior ? Or at least superior enough to make the previous "1942 out-of-a-box" hide inferior ?

There's a hell of a run on GW jackets .....................................

Anyone got a Doniger goat russett in a 46 ?

Dave :ugeek:

 

[jacketimp]

Andrew, in what way would it be superior ? Or at least superior enough to make the previous "1942 out-of-a-box" hide inferior ?

Dave :ugeek:

superior superior?

 

[jacketimp]

There's a hell of a run on GW jackets .....................................


Dave :ugeek:

like a run on a bank??

 

[Roughwear]

Andrew, in what way would it be superior ? Or at least superior enough to make the previous "1942 out-of-a-box" hide inferior ?

There's a hell of a run on GW jackets .....................................

Anyone got a Doniger goat russett in a 46 ?

Dave :ugeek:

In my opinion this new HH is closer to original HH and in this sense is more authentic than the HH on Rote's jacket. The picture says it all!

 

[greyhound52]

Andrew, in what way would it be superior ? Or at least superior enough to make the previous "1942 out-of-a-box" hide inferior ?

There's a hell of a run on GW jackets .....................................

Anyone got a Doniger goat russett in a 46 ?

Dave :ugeek:

In my opinion this new HH is closer to original HH and in this sense is more authentic than the HH on Rote's jacket. The picture says it all!

Wow I agree. Jeff gets fixed on one thing and then tends to sell jackets to get the next best thing. I have benefitted from this by getting his original Doniger and a BR RW Bronco hide A2.

 

[Anonymous]

If that hide on top is modern, then yes, it looks like it's 60 years old. Is it the same weight as original ?

Also, are we saying that JC's other hides won't age to look like originals and if they will, why this new hide then ? To me, it looks odd if the hide looks old and the knits and lining are new. He may as well pre-age the other parts too, no ? If his previous hides will end up looking like this new one, then all you end up buying is a short cut to getting a worn look. 'Time Worn' you might say. :lol:

Personally I prefer to break my own jackets in with honest wear but I appreciate that I might be in the minority there.

It's also strange that no RMNZ, ELC, Aero's seem to be flooding the market due to recession (rather than for the whole world to buy GW ). Are we saying that buyers of their jackets are less discerning or less 'temperamental' than GW buyers ?

I have to say that buying several GW's only to sell each at some loss to buy another one only ends up with you owning one VERY expensive repro' and always looking over your shoulder in case a new 'Ultimate' comes out. Might it not be cheaper to just buy an original in the first place ? I'm KNOW JC isn't doing it intentionally but if it were a car or some other goods, a cynic might say it was a sales / marketing ploy ......................

And , of course, owning a modern jacket that looks like it's 60 years old is not the same as owning a repro or original as the original looked after several years wear back in the day. Shouldn't we all be looking for a jacket that looks as it did during it's service life ? i.e. one that has between 1 and 5 years wear ? They didn't look 60 years old back in 1945 !!!!!! BLASPHEMY I hear some of you cry. I'm going straight to hell for that remark ! :lol:

Dave :ugeek:

 

[Lignemaginot]

Well, I for one am super pleased with the two 27753 that I've bought from John; they're not going anywhere at the moment other than on my back.

I do think that I did the right thing by sending him an original A-2 that fit me perfectly, rather than sending measurements; no room for error when you're spending that kind of cash, and I haven't been disappointed.

Before I ever ordered a jacket from John, I managed to purchase a GW United Sheeplined from Rotenhahn that was tagged as a 46 - I didn't bother to check the measurements because I'm not terribly picky, and anything that says 46 should generally be fine on me, give or take. However, when I received it, it was far too narrow between the shoulder blades. I'm not saying that John made a mistake - he no doubt made it according to the specs that he was given. But it did make me realize that the best way to get the right fit is to provide the perfect model, if you have it.

So I do hope people aren't unloading them because they're not quite the right fit!

 

[ausreenactor]

Gents..

Admittedly, I have never gone through the pre-purchase measure/liase/re-measure process for any of my jackets. I have only bought one ELC brand new from the factory. All my other ELC's and BR's have been best guess buys. When I do buy a jacket I hope to look like a 40's soldier/airman who has owned it, and the rest of the uniform, for a couple of years. I would not buy a jacket to look like a 60+ year old original. Very few aircrew would have owned a Jacket that looks like a Bahaman grandmother who does not know the meaning of the word sunscreen. Is there a slight chance that buyers are hoping to hold onto these re-created originals to dupe buyers 10-20 years down the track?? Perhaps they will appreciate more as "originals" than the current 60-80% return on purchase price?? I would expect the jacket to fetch $600-650 in the current market. But the one guy who is/was willing to push it that high picked up a GW in this size last week!!

I would not be selling anything at the moment. It IS time to buy, buy, buy!!

Couchy

 

[jacketimp]

Gents..


I would not be selling anything at the moment. It IS time to buy, buy, buy!!

Couchy

buying buys happiness........

 

[Roughwear]

Very few aircrew would have owned a Jacket that looks like a Bahaman grandmother who does not know the meaning of the word sunscreen. Couchy

This is rather a sweeping statement. I own 11 original A2 and none are as you described here.They all have sections with pronounced grain and smooth parts too. Some are alsmost mint and in better condition than than many recent repro A2s. If an original has been worn in the war and then stored it will be in similar condition to a five year old repro in terms of the appearance of the leather. Of course if an original is worn excessively for years and not conditioned it will resemble the character you describe! JC's new HH is not all like the sample above, but has smoother sections too, as do many original A2s.

 

[CBI]

RW - Do you have any photos of your original jackets that have this minimal wear look? My experience is that a 60 year old jacket looks like its 60 years old no matter what shape its in. This is why I stay away from originals. I used to own quite a few originals but that was 20 years ago. I have seen one ot two in the last few years that looked pretty darn good but they were fetching close to $3,000. During my collector days 20 years ago, I would have paid $300 for the same.

 

[buzzthetower]

Very few aircrew would have owned a Jacket that looks like a Bahaman grandmother who does not know the meaning of the word sunscreen.

Hmm. I may be mistaken, but I get the feeling that some horsehide has inherent grain that is just part of how it looks, good or bad. That grain would be present in the factory when the parts are cut up, and would become more pronounced with the first month of use. I'm guessing that it would not take 60+ years to magically appear after being beaten silly a million times.

Maybe the photos below from Life Magazine will give a good impression of leather in use in WWII. There are examples of smooth leather from that period, too, which shows that most jackets had a moderate amount of both grain and smooth parts, with some just having more than others. If one thinks that all A-2s came off the factory in flat, smooth leather that had zero character, I have to admit, I don't agree at all.

Is there a conspiracy to sell vintage-looking jackets in the future as WWII examples? I don't think so. I think a number of people just like WWII jackets and how they look. Wearing a repro is a little easier on the conscience than wearing an original (and easier to get in a proper size). Originals are often fragile, and have historic significance. Pretty simple.

I want to give people a choice. No one is forced to get inherently grainy aniline horsehide, but it's nice to know that such is available. History proves that naturally grainy leather was a fact of life in the 1940s.

J

 

[CBI]

John - well said - great pics - John

 

[ausreenactor]

G'day..

The pics show some great grain and wear. As the son of a Leathercraftsman (Holster in my Avatar is his) I have had whole and half hides draped across the train set table. Most of the grained sections were used for dye or pattern practice etc. and quickly binned. Only the best and thickest sections went into belts and holsters. I do not think a Government contractor would have lasted long, or got paid using loads of the sample hide in the pic. I just found the sample piece very grained. Being a Darwin boy I thought it almost Croc (Gator) like!! I acknowledge that some would drool over such grain. And many are electing to quench their desires for their ulimate A-2 with hides of this type.

This ELC House in Vintage Horse, which was an old trial hide prior to the Warhorse. It is very grained over the entire jacket, though I consider the grain totally unrelated to wear. It appears assembled from a hide rejected or overlooked by a furniture manufacturer of days gone by. The grain is not only in what you could call high use areas.

While bespoke flying jackets were definitely not the standard in WWII, it is certainly the flavour these days!

Couchy

 

[ausreenactor]

Very few aircrew would have owned a Jacket that looks like a Bahaman grandmother who does not know the meaning of the word sunscreen. Couchy

This is rather a sweeping statement. I own 11 original A2 and none are as you described here.They all have sections with pronounced grain and smooth parts too. Some are alsmost mint and in better condition than than many recent repro A2s. If an original has been worn in the war and then stored it will be in similar condition to a five year old repro in terms of the appearance of the leather. Of course if an original is worn excessively for years and not conditioned it will resemble the character you describe! JC's new HH is not all like the sample above, but has smoother sections too, as do many original A2s.

Just wanted to follow up on my last... I had not relayed my point too well. I was attempting to impart a Jacket made completely of the hide shown would have been an oddity. I agree that grain is inherent in the hide, be it visible or latent. It has been my pleasure to own several jackets all with varying levels of grain. My Buzz Rickson 1943 RW 23380 in Italian Stallion is the best grained jacket I have owned and mimics several of the jackets in pics above in certain ways. I also indicated that my Vintage Horse is grained uniformly across all sections. And appears to be a bit of a "mongrel". It does, however fit me very well and will stay!

Hope that clarifys my point a bit more..

Sections of grain great & whole jacket with loads of heavy grain another story..

Couchy

 

[jacketimp]

i want the real thing i get the real thing...........nothin simulated/replicated but then this is rerpos we're talking, right?