FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD ALERT

[Anonymous]

SORRY I DON'T KNOW HOW TO COPY ITEMS YET, BUT CHECK THIS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ITEM ORIGINALLY SOLD UNDER 220431873032, A FEW MONTHS LATER THE LABEL WAS CHANGED TO DUBOW ITEM 230364556225. SOMEONE IS GETTING SHAFTED.

 

[Anonymous]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0431873032

I think I did this right

 

[Anonymous]

SORRY JUST NOT GOOD AT THIS YET. THE ORIGINAL ITEM. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0431873032

 

[Roughwear]

I agree with you. You can even see the outline of the USAAF decal which the seller has tried to rub out. Yes an inferior repro passed of as a Dubow repro. Have you reported this fraud to Ebay?

 

[ghq1]

Re: FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD ALERT A-2 46L

Good catch Stuka!

No doubt it's the same coat

The new seller even left feedback for the original jacket:

Excellent item great ebayer!!!!!!!!!!!! Buyer: bubbza ( 403) Jun-25-09 12:57
A-2 A2 FLIGHT JACKET 46L (#220431873032) US $124.99 View Item

I miss the days on Ebay where you could drop the high bidder a note .. no matter who you were . . .

 

[Roughwear]

It will be interesting to see if Ebay pull the listing.

 

[Anonymous]

I NOTIFIED EBAY TWO DAYS AGO WITHOUT TELLING THE SELLER, EBAY HAS DONE NOTHING, MAYBE IF I CONTACT THE SELLER AND INFORM THEM OF A POSSIBLE FRAUD REPORT TO EBAY THEY MIGHT PULL IT.

 

[Roughwear]

I NOTIFIED EBAY TWO DAYS AGO WITHOUT TELLING THE SELLER, EBAY HAS DONE NOTHING, MAYBE IF I CONTACT THE SELLER AND INFORM THEM OF A POSSIBLE FRAUD REPORT TO EBAY THEY MIGHT PULL IT.

Ebay may take up to 72 hours to deal with this matter. You could contact the seller and mention the fraud, but I suspect the jacket will stay on ebay until the end. :roll:

 

[havocpaul]

If we all bid over $1000000 it will f*** him up and he might get the message!

 

[Roughwear]

If we all bid over $1000000 it will f*** him up and he might get the message!

All eyes on you then Paul.

 

[havocpaul]

it recently happened to a seller who was trying to sell some fake Michael Jackson item apparently.

 

[Jason]

Well, apart from the misleading title where a green buyer might think it's an original A-2 from WW2 - the listing does mention that it's a reproduction. And of course to our eyes it looks all wrong to be a Dubow... or even one of the repro makers version of a Dubow.
Not the most open & honest listing, but I wouldn't quite call it fraud.

 

[joeson]

Well, apart from the misleading title where a green buyer might think it's an original A-2 from WW2 - the listing does mention that it's a reproduction. And of course to our eyes it looks all wrong to be a Dubow... or even one of the repro makers version of a Dubow.
Not the most open & honest listing, but I wouldn't quite call it fraud.

Surely,if the seller has removed the original makers label and replaced it with different one,he is trying to pass it off as something he clearly knows it is not.Isn't that fraud?

 

[Roughwear]

Well, apart from the misleading title where a green buyer might think it's an original A-2 from WW2 - the listing does mention that it's a reproduction. And of course to our eyes it looks all wrong to be a Dubow... or even one of the repro makers version of a Dubow.
Not the most open & honest listing, but I wouldn't quite call it fraud.

Surely,if the seller has removed the original makers label and replaced it with different one,he is trying to pass it off as something he clearly knows it is not.Isn't that fraud?

Of course its fraud. I'm sure Jason is just playing the Devil's advocate here.

 

[Andrew]

Original seller was former member Mark (P40 or similar)- he always had something to say, it'd be interesting to know his thoughts. What a rort by this new seller.

 

[Anonymous]

I WOULD SEND THE BUYER A MESSAGE BUT THE BIDDING IS BLIND. HOWEVER AFTER SELLER FEEDBACK IS LEFT, I'M SURE THE BUYER IS OPENED UP, AND COMMUNICATION IS POSSIBLE. IF EBAY DOESN'T STOP THIS I WILL SEND THE BUYER ALL THE INFO INCLUDING THE FRAUD CASE NUMBER FROM EBAY. HE CAN GO AFTER THE BUYER POSSIBLY THRU PAYPAL INSURED POLICIES, AND REAM EBAY.

 

[asiamiles]

Well, apart from the misleading title where a green buyer might think it's an original A-2 from WW2 - the listing does mention that it's a reproduction. And of course to our eyes it looks all wrong to be a Dubow... or even one of the repro makers version of a Dubow.
Not the most open & honest listing, but I wouldn't quite call it fraud.

Of course it's not fraud. Unethical? I'm not even sure it is. The seller has changed the label, but so what? Members here buy jackets and change stuff on them and then sell them. No harm in that. You could say he's improved the jacket by giving it a better label, and is reaping the reward. He doesn't even claim the jacket is Dubow repro, so he's not misleading anyone in that sense. However, he does state it's horsehide, whereas the original listing says steerhide; maybe he figures the original seller got it wrong, but if he's claiming it's horsehide and it's not, well then that is cause for compliant.

 

[ghq1]

Well, apart from the misleading title where a green buyer might think it's an original A-2 from WW2 - the listing does mention that it's a reproduction. And of course to our eyes it looks all wrong to be a Dubow... or even one of the repro makers version of a Dubow.
Not the most open & honest listing, but I wouldn't quite call it fraud.

Of course it's not fraud. Unethical? I'm not even sure it is. The seller has changed the label, but so what? Members here buy jackets and change stuff on them and then sell them. No harm in that. .

So by your logic . .if I buy a Cooper A-2 . . .and add an Eastman label . . .then no harm in that ?. . .I've changed the jacket's very nature . . to my selling advantage

Fraud is defined to be "an intentional perversion of truth" or a "false misrepresentation of a matter of fact" . .and by changing a label . . and identifying the jacket as something it's not or never was . . . .then that's a false representation of a matter of fact . .. This whole situation is one of the clearest cases of fraud you could conjure . . . .

 

[asiamiles]

So by your logic . .if I buy a Cooper A-2 . . .and add an Eastman label . . .then no harm in that ?. . .I've changed the jacket's very nature . . to my selling advantage

Fraud is defined to be "an intentional perversion of truth" or a "false misrepresentation of a matter of fact" . .and by changing a label . . and identifying the jacket as something it's not or never was . . . .then that's a false representation of a matter of fact . .. This whole situation is one of the clearest cases of fraud you could conjure . . . .

If you knowingly tried to pass off a Cooper as an Eastman that would be completely different. But this seller is not claiming the jacket is something it's not. He's not claiming it's an original Dubow or even that it's a Dubow repro. Maybe you could say he's implying it's a Dubow repro by adding the label, but would you say the same if he changed something else such as the zipper pull? And then what about ELC and BR who offer repro Rough Wear B-6's, when RW never made a B-6? Isn't that a far more serious "false representation of a matter of fact."

Also, why is brand new member suddenly screaming "FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD ALERT" in capitals?

 

[joeson]

So by your logic . .if I buy a Cooper A-2 . . .and add an Eastman label . . .then no harm in that ?. . .I've changed the jacket's very nature . . to my selling advantage

Fraud is defined to be "an intentional perversion of truth" or a "false misrepresentation of a matter of fact" . .and by changing a label . . and identifying the jacket as something it's not or never was . . . .then that's a false representation of a matter of fact . .. This whole situation is one of the clearest cases of fraud you could conjure . . . .

If you knowingly tried to pass off a Cooper as an Eastman that would be completely different. But this seller is not claiming the jacket is something it's not. He's not claiming it's an original Dubow or even that it's a Dubow repro. Maybe you could say he's implying it's a Dubow repro by adding the label, but would you say the same if he changed something else such as the zipper pull? And then what about ELC and BR who offer repro Rough Wear B-6's, when RW never made a B-6? Isn't that a far more serious "false representation of a matter of fact."

Also, why is brand new member suddenly screaming "FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD ALERT" in capitals?

What the point seems to be is that the label has been changed for no other reason than to mislead.If the zip pull was changed you could argue that it was improving,or was more contemporary,to the jacket.You could also claim it was necessary,due to the original being faulty.What is the justification for removing a near to new label and replacing it with one that has no connection to the origin of the jacket?