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FIVESTAR LEATHER A2 in horsehide

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Nice!! I saw on the FS facebook page that Shawn is also working on a Doniger repo
Hell's bloody bells! I'd sworn off getting any new jackets until I wear what I already have into the ground but now we have Platon's Dubow, AVI's forthcoming Perry, and now to put the cherry on top, 5 Star's Doniger.

5 Star seems to be coming along in leaps and bounds from what they were making last year. It's nice to see a company striving to do better and make a better product and the Doniger has made me prick my ears up especially.

Looking forward to the fit pics Thomas.
 

johnwayne

Well-Known Member
Sorry to be party pooper here guys but are you sure? I've studied the images carefully and not only does it look plasticy to me, that collar shape and fold looks so wrong and not particularly 'Bronco' IMHO - i would suggest the leather is just too soft and that hanger, could it get any wider! No covering on reverse of collar stud, the thread colour is wrong plus either the tension was too tight or an oversized needle was used showing 'puckering' around the large stitch holes. Genuinely not wishing to criticise for the sake of it but not a faithful 'maker' copy, again in IMHO and so not for me, however keenly priced.
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Sorry to be party pooper here guys but are you sure? I've studied the images carefully and not only does it look plasticy to me, that collar shape and fold looks so wrong and not particularly 'Bronco' IMHO - i would suggest the leather is just too soft and that hanger, could it get any wider! No covering on reverse of collar stud, the thread colour is wrong plus either the tension was too tight or an oversized needle was used showing 'puckering' around the large stitch holes. Genuinely not wishing to criticise for the sake of it but not a faithful 'maker' copy, again in IMHO and so not for me, however keenly priced.
Bear in mind that the jacket that Thomas has bought is around a 6th of the price of some of the higher end repros so you can hardly expect the jacket to have the same level of detail and accuracy as something 5 or 6 times more expensive surely?

But you really seem to be doing a bit of trolling here because every time someone posts one of these more budget-minded options you seem to feel compelled to troll these threads. Cases in point...

As I said, sorry I'm not berating or trying to rain on anyone's parade and I've even praised Platons Dubow plus I'm the first to admit the usual suspects top end jackets are without doubt we'll overpriced IMO these days yet, they still sell and get snapped up pretty quickly when sold used. All I really was trying to suggest was that I doubt these low budget producers will ever see the subtle nuances in 'maker ' styles because accuracy is probably not their desire in the same way it has been for the big boys whose time, effort and research (and desire based on personal interest) has/is still clearly paying off for them. However, for those who are happy to buy a 'less faithful' repro then you pay your money you takes your choice and again I don't say that as a put down, but even at at the keen prices offered I get the impression it's a gamble what you'll end up with. I very much doubt we'll ever see any of these budget jackets in years to come being mistaken for an original like some ELC's and GW's have.

'Gotta start somewhere....' The nail on the head, these guys don't have the knowledge like the mainstream top end producers. ELC, GW and Aero for instance have history and experience due to the knowledge they've accrued and the desire for accuracy from what probably started as a hobby. Can these newbies really see the subtle differences between contracts, much like the man on the street (or my missus for that matter!) to turn out faithful repros? I get the impression they are just pandering to requests based on orders based on making a sale and, profit. I'll be very surprised if in a few years time they'll be offering several 'maker' A2's, probably maybe just a generic house version. Yes I know it's a budget thing but some of the flag waving seen so far has yet to be justified from the evidence I've seen, sorry if that offends some but as I said earlier, not for me. If you're gonna do something do it right!

Not for me either!

Exact copy of a Hartmann? Are you in the wrong thread Nick123? If not then while I know I may have come across as a bit critical but it is nearer to an A2! In all seriousness guys I think you'll find prices will increase the closer you try to get nearer the real thing, a la Bill Kelso and from the pics it's still a long way off - just my honest opinion but, you get what you pay for. Norshor are still about by the way but I think Mark decided there was sufficient players in the repro market so has concentrated on just civi period jackets, check him out, some lovely pieces. Not sure about Diamond Dave, think he just disappeared from here like others as he got fed up with the way he saw this forum going at times - like many admit, it has changed, for better or worse is for the individual to decide and all going off topic I realise.

Sorry guys but that collar looks so wrong, the fold in particular looks like mall jacket that even with wear I doubt will ever look right. Knit colour looks very dark too as does the seal (I believe that Bronco contract was russet anyway) - for a specific maker style it looks to me more like a house A2 IMO. Not trying to be negative but just my honest observations going by the images.

I could have quoted much, much more and incredibly the above quotes from your postings are just from the last 2 months, there's lots more similar.

These kinds of thread responses start to look like you're either trolling threads devoted to more budget minded options or that you have an agenda. Either way it isn't particularly flattering or look very good.
 
Wow that's a sharp jacket. I need to get one before the prices go up. I saw some pics of the distressed russet goat on a fb group called reproduction flight jacket patches. It looks nothing the mall quality rubbish on his eBay store. It does in fact look like natural patina IMO. Here is the post,

 

johnwayne

Well-Known Member
I guess I expected some flak but not 'trolling' as you seem to think, just my honest opinion every time, isn't that what this forum is about? Surely we can agree to disagree and if folks are happy with their choice of such a budget jacket then fine -all I'm saying is what I see, which personally I believe does not look a faithful repro. No one has disagreed the points I raised. I've tried to make my posts polite and not wished to offend anyone so apologise if that's the case but if you can't speak your mind then what's the point of VLJ? Like many before I think maybe it's time depart this place, sorry as I am to say that,
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
I guess I expected some flak but not 'trolling' as you seem to think, just my honest opinion every time, isn't that what this forum is about? Surely we can agree to disagree and if folks are happy with their choice of such a budget jacket then fine -all I'm saying is what I see, which personally I believe does not look a faithful repro. No one has disagreed the points I raised. I've tried to make my posts polite and not wished to offend anyone so apologise if that's the case but if you can't speak your mind then what's the point of VLJ? Like many before I think maybe it's time depart this place, sorry as I am to say that,
Constantly going into these kinds of threads which deal with budget-minded options and continually saying and inferring that they're not as good as the higher end jackets is just stating the obvious. Everybody here (and especially here where we're interested in these kinds of jackets) can see that they're not to the same level as a GW or suchlike, there's no way they can or could be. It's a redundant point to make and especially if you're doing it over and over again. Which begs the question why do it.

The sheer multitude of these kinds of posts that you've been making and the frequency with which you make them unfortunately does look like trolling or that you've got some kind of agenda. I got a shock when I went through your posts to give some examples to back up what I was saying above, because there's just so many of them. It's not like the odd, occasional comment, there's loads of them.

Maybe you're not trolling and you just like complaining. Either way it doesn't look terribly good.
 

Bombing IP

Well-Known Member
My take on this is that its an evolution of an interested leather jacket maker to fill a niche in the market ,he has taken our input and pointers to create an A2 jacket .Given its not perfect it has evolved from mall type to where we are to day and I say its coming along very nicely . I do not remember any one criticizing John Chapman's original early jackets and many of them were far from perfect .We are still criticizing Eastman's jackets and he has been in business for 40 years . I have said this before Five Star has asked for help and has shown his work for critique and we has offered up our opinions and he has said thank you .Moved on the next one to make changes for the better ,there is a learning curve at play here and I believe the final product will get better .He is now working to put together a Doniger which is a smart move because they were all made of goat and that's what he deals in most of the time .We now have jackets coming our way in horse hide at our forum members request .I do not think this guy Shawn has been on the forum much longer than a year and has put for our pleasure 3 types of jackets for consideration and moving on a fourth . Re Johnwaynes comments and no one disagreeing with you its because we have heard it all before and we let it go by . You can see by the positive comments on the jacket there is some interest and that does not align with you ? . We do not all seek the $1600 perfect pallet of reproduction and it not going to come from Five Star today but in time it will get closer at a considerable saving . One step at a time ,or as Confucius said a journey of a 1000 miles starts with the first step . Yes you are entitled to your opinion but you are laboring the point and its effectiveness to the same crowd who are interested in the evolution of the Five Star Jacket . I wish you well johnwayne just my take on it .

BIP
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
Personally I am very excited to see Shawn's Doniger. If he can study it carefully and re-create the nuances and get the details right, and get the grading workable... I think he could do really well with it. I will certainly buy one.
I am not sure about that horsehide, I guess we will see more of it, but hell, Shawn really is trying... And should be encouraged.

I've said it before, these AVI and 5 Star jackets are NOT ELC, GW, BK-types... They are not at that level (at the moment). But they do serve an important niche here, as has been discussed, infinitely.
These jacket are 70% plus there, compared to the top-tier's 90-100%... for example. But at a fraction of the cost, and thats the main point for me.
If you have an urge to patch a jacket, or try your hand at giving one a paint job, but don't want to potentially ruin your £1200 baby, or simply cannot justify that kind of money on any jacket, but still want some WW2 specific detailing - then these are perfectly good buys!
At least as good and in many cases better than some of the lower and mid range jackets currently on offer.

With my experience with AVI and from what I see of Shawn's work, practically speaking... these are at the same quality as any original I've seen, and will last a life time. If you are only after as-close-to-dammit detailing and authenticity, you can only go top-tier, but be prepared to pay for that.

Anyone and everyone is free to comment and offer criticism, but respectfully and within context.
Some of you guys have had many years of experience with originals, and some valuable insights to offer up. You don't have to buy one, but pay-it-forward with constructive criticism and advice.
Then we all win at the end of the day.
The way prices are going, we will do well to encourage and support these guys where we can... Just consider a few years from now when the top-tiers are approaching the $2000 mark... Perhaps by then AVI and Shawn have a couple of really good jackets, 80 to 90% there... as far as detailing and authenticity goes, for a few hundred pounds!!! At least there will still be jackets to buy! And we will still have a hobby ;)
 

Thomas Koehle

Well-Known Member
I guess I expected some flak but not ...

... can't speak your mind then what's the point of VLJ? Like many before I think maybe it's time depart this place, sorry as I am to say that,
As from my point of view people are diverse with diverse ideas, expectations and opinions.

This is perfectly fine for me so pls keep on sharing your thoughts.

So John Wayne pls stay and share ...

For me that’s the 2nd thread started within 2 weeks which causes a lot of discussion. Maybe next time I write about „Cultivation of Marihuana on my balcony“ which then hopefully not again starts such controversy.

Finally to explain my point of view: I am not an A2 jacket expert and i‘m far far far away to be able to distinguish the different makers in WW2. This is also why i‘m Not willing to pay beyond 600 or 700 bucks for an A2. I‘m happy with a jacket that to my knowledge looks authentic- I believe will never ever run into a A2 geek here in the south of Germany who will point out which maker my repop jackets should represent.

I talked to Shawn and „volunteered“ to obviously be the first to order a hh jacket from him. Some people on the forum claimed they will order but seems I was the first.

Honestly I talked Shawn into a special price sotosay to be the guinea-pig and take the risk the jacket could maybe look like crap. As from the pics Shawn sent the jacket looks fine for me and should fit because I just copied the dimensions from the seal-brown A2 I already got from 5*.

I‘m really looking forward to get the jacket and off course will post fitpics asap
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
I'm really looking forward to seeing the fit pics Thomas.

It's quite remarkable the improvements that Shawn has made in the year or so since he first posted here. Comparing those first examples to what he's making now, he's really making progress.
 
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