CRAZY difference in leather between 2 Eastman 1401Ps

[mezz07]

I had the opportunity to try on two new Eastman 1401P jackets this week. They are the same except the jacket on the left in the pictures is a size 44 and the one on the right is a 46. The difference in leather was very surprising to me. The 44 had smooth, hard, and shiny leather with awesome creases over the entire jacket. The 46 had thick, supple, and very grainy leather that wasn't as shiny over basically the entire jacket. Why would two 1401Ps look so different as far as the leather is concerned? Anybody with experience please let me know. Personally I think the 44 on the left in the pictures is ALOT more beautiful. Too bad 46 is the size I wear.

 

[mezz07]

The pocket flaps are cut wrong on the jacket on the right. There are pattern inconsistencies. It's difficult to even see the stitching. The jacket on the right is just butt ugly. It appears to be a jacket made by an apprentice, not a master. Whoever made it can't even cut or sew straight. Oh, and the collar is sewn on crooked and one of the pocket flaps doesn't snap closed. How it even passed quality control is a mystery.

On the other hand I believe the jacket on the left is a gorgeous creation by a very skilled craftsman.

 

[havocpaul]

For me the one on the right looks way better! More grain and obviously we can't see your issues with the pockets/stitching etc so can't judge that. Just to say if you bought it from Eastman then let them know and they'll change it, seems very unusual they should have such noticeable construction problems. I personally am not a fan of what seems like a new 'trend' from several repro makes now to have such shiny hides, I don't see that as being more authentic and it must be possible to not have such a glossy finish...that's why I prefer the 46 in your photos, less shine, more grain!

 

[Marv]

I have a ELC RW 27752 in Warhorse which I purchased new in March 2011 and the hide was very shiny when it first arrived with areas of pronounced grain already showing.

The fit was good (46" reg) and the jacket started to break in almost immediately but was still very shiny, so after a few hot water misting sessions and general wear it started to dull down a bit.

The hide is about the correct thickness and reasonably subtle now so does break in quite well with everyday wear, unfortunately I don't have the quality of photos that you have posted but here is what I have got.......

From when the jacket was new.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

To each their own comes to mind. I much prefer the one on the right. I like grain but don't care for shiny leather.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Tom

 

[Roughwear]

I'm with Paul and Tom here. Having seen the shiny ELC A2s at Duxford recently, the older near matt examples are closer to NOS originals. BTW. The size 44 RW seems a better fit than the size 46.

 

[Rutger]

Noticed the shiny stuff of lately, thought it to come with seal jackets only, but nowadays with russet as well.
Now where does that shine come from exactly? Part of the leather fabricating process that had changes with fashion?

 

[havocpaul]

It has crept into many new repro jackets and not just Eastman, must be how the hides are tanned but it is IMO far from how any original looked even when first issued, I recently bought very cheaply on eBay an Eastman seal PH from only a couple of years ago and it is matt with bags of grain and character, that for me is how they should look.

 

[Marv]

It has crept into many new repro jackets and not just Eastman, must be how the hides are tanned but it is IMO far from how any original looked even when first issued, I recently bought very cheaply on eBay an Eastman seal PH from only a couple of years ago and it is matt with bags of grain and character, that for me is how they should look.

I agree, I bought an ELC Pearl Harbor in American walnut new back in 2009 and the steerhide was dull straight out of the box with areas of pronounced grain all over and, apart from my GW, this is the best fitting and most comfortable ELC A2 that I have owned.

I guess the shine finish is applied to protect the hide colour and stop it wearing too quickly, I seem to recall when ELC first released their warhouse hide, there were a few jackets - the RW 27752 where the seal top coat started to wear badly almost immediately so I guess this was when ELC applied the shiny clear spray finish to slow down the process.

 

[ausreenactor]

To each their own comes to mind. I much prefer the one on the right. I like grain but don't care for shiny leather.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Tom

I'd go the Buzz Ricksons in the background!!

Couchy

 

[MikeyB-17]

I also have to say from the first two pics I much prefer the one on the right. Matt and grainy over smooth and shiny for me, I think the one on the right looks much more like a Wartime jacket-OK, the pocket flap issue isn't right and ought to be addressed, but all the other things just add to the authenticity for me-that's how most of them were made during the War! I understand that the boys in WWII didn't pay big bucks for their jackets, they were issued them, but I quite like a few idiosyncracies.

 

[mezz07]

I've reflected about my opinions and have thought about what you guys have said about grain being a good thing and shiny leather maybe not being the best. I think I was being too critical of the 46. I now believe that the 46 would be a wonderful jacket if it was constructed properly. The leather was wonderful. It was thick beautiful aniline dyed horsehide. It was very comfortable and had color variation and mismatched panels that looked wonderful. Maybe I just freaked out a little bit because of the pocket flaps being deformed and a host of other small problems. I am still baffled how two jackets can look so different coming from the same manufacturer. Maybe it's not apparent in the photos, but the pocket flaps were very deformed and looked downright ugly. If the pocket flaps were made correctly and there wasn't a razor slice on the collar I think I would have liked the jacket a lot more.

These jackets are handmade. I don't expect perfection. But I do expect a certain amount of precision and craftsmanship. I truly believe the 46 was made by an apprentice. At least with GW I know that John Chapman made the jacket. With Eastman I have no idea who constructs my jackets. While the 46 had a lot of good features it had so many errors and damage that I couldn't keep it. The grain on the pocket flap looks hideous. A smoother piece of leather would have made all the difference.

Oh well, let's just hope the new 46 I'm getting will meet my expectations. After all, the cost of the 1401P represents almost a month's worth of pay for me. I just want a beautiful well constructed jacket. Something so simple now seems so elusive. Thanks for your comments and for reading about my pity party.

 

[Roughwear]

Original A2s from the same contract were constructed under War time conditions and show significant variation in the details, with miss-aligned collars, asymmetrical pocket flaps and other idiosyncracies. Of course some of the operators were more skilled than others, but all had to pass inspection. I have owned many ELC A2s and have never encountered the issues you have had with your size 46. Perhaps it was a Friday afternoon jacket! Good luck in getting a replacement-third time lucky I hope.

 

[derleicaman]

I don't want to add fuel to the GW vs. ELC fire, but I agree 100% that the 46 is a duff jacket. The pocket flaps are distorted and look like a generic take on an A-2, let alone a 1401-P. Almost a caricature of the real thing. At these prices, to not get something as basic as the pocket flap right is totally unacceptable. I also noticed that the pockets seem to be sewn too high on the jacket body. I wonder if they got the collar right? This is another unique element to RW and the 1401-P. I've had several ELC jackets. Lovely packaging (presentation) and zippers. I have Gary's book, too. He seems to really know A-2s and care about the details. Somehow this all gets lost in his actual jacket production. I have sold on all of the ELCs with the exception of my B3 which is another animal altogether.
John's jackets are keepers. He seems to nail the details every time. He is always striving to improve his product and make them even better. ELC on the other hand seems to be all over the place. Both outfits are very successful, though, so I guess they're both doing something right.

 

[mezz07]

I agree 100% that the 46 is a duff jacket. The pocket flaps are distorted and look like a generic take on an A-2, let alone a 1401-P. Almost a caricature of the real thing. At these prices, to not get something as basic as the pocket flap right is totally unacceptable. I also noticed that the pockets seem to be sewn too high on the jacket body. I wonder if they got the collar right? This is another unique element to RW and the 1401-P. I've had several ELC jackets. Lovely packaging (presentation) and zippers. I have Gary's book, too. He seems to really know A-2s and care about the details. Somehow this all gets lost in his actual jacket production.

I'm glad someone finally sees how messed up the pocket flaps are. I've never seen a GW in real life, but I've seen a lot of pictures. I've also seen a lot of pictures of Eastman jackets and lots of other brands. Even US Authentic and the low end makers of A-2s can cut their pocket flaps correctly. The flaps on my 46 were way too short and they were distorted and deformed. The sides are supposed to be straight up and down in line with the pockets as in the pics of the 44. The 46 flaps go all over the place. Screwing up the size and shape of the pocket flaps was just an indication that other errors in the jacket exist. Like the collar being sewn on crooked. One side of the collar was a 1/4" shorter than the other and along the back of the collar the length varied so much the overall look was a wavy collar. There were so many things wrong with the jacket it would take too long to list them all.

I do agree that the leather itself of the 46 was nice and thick and grainy and all that good stuff. But Eastman needs to get their stuff together. I paid a substantial amount of money and I can't even get straight cuts and good sewing. Even the cheapest jacket makers can sew and cut straight. And using super grainy "alligator leather" on the pocket flaps was a bad move since the pocket panels were made of smooth shiny leather. The combination looked ugly, especially with deformed flaps. I've been a fan of ELC so far. I hope the 46 was just a freak jacket. We'll see what they send me in another week.

Hopefully this next 46 won't have heavy sweats stains, razor slices, pockmarks, pocket flaps that don't snap closed, a cracked and busted hanging loop, and it would also be nice to get a jacket that actually comes with tags and seems new. I was sent not only a defective jacket but also a heavily used and abused jacket. We'll see what the next 46 looks like. I still have faith in Eastman but I am now pretty paranoid and nervous about what's coming in the mail next week.

 

[Marv]

I definitely think it was a one off, I have owned several eastmans and never had to return because it was defective and only if there was a sizing issue, which wasn't a problem.

When your replacement 1401-P arrives next week I'm sure you will be pleased with it.

 

[mezz07]

I received my replacement 1401 size 46 and it's great. No more problems. No defects and no wear. I knew it was just bad luck that I received the "DUFF" jacket. The new jacket is a mixture of the other two in terms of leather. It's the best out of the 3 IMO. It's cut correctly for starters. The collar, pocket flaps and all other areas are generally even and beautiful. The grain is very noticeable but not overbearing like my 2nd jacket. Another great feature of this third 1401 is that it is smaller than the 2nd duff jacket even though they're both 46s. This means it fits like it was tailored for me. I'm completely satisfied and am happy with Eastman and HPA's service. They even paid for the Express Mail shipping. I'll post pics shortly. So we have a happy ending here. I've had it a few days and it's already starting to break in. I wear it with my AC on. I was SO RELEIVED when I opened the box and I knew immediately it was right as soon as I laid eyes on it. Now I'm just waiting for fall weather so I can get some public opinion on the jackets I've bought over the summer.

 

[Roughwear]

I'm so glad the saga has had a happy ending. Looking forward to seeing the wearing pics in due course.

 

[mezz07]

Most pics are showing the jacket a little too red than it appears in real life. The second pic is more accurate as far as color.

 

[mezz07]

I'll post some pics of me wearing it soon. I now find myself a little curious about what kind of jackets John Chapman is making. Although I think my next A-2 will be an ELC Star to upgrade my current 8 year old Eastman Star. BTW I noticed from research that the 1401P was originally aniline dyed (at least in most cases) and that the Star Sportswear was semi-aniline dyed. I understand the difference between the two dying techniques on paper, but in real life will a new semi-aniline jacket stand up in all the ways that matter to a fully aniline dyed jacket such as my 1401P? Thanks